6 + 2 Point Deductions

[MCtoffee]

Can we not just say, ok, we’ll take the 10 points on the chin and shake on it!?

 

[gwladysnight]

- It’s not true that City’s charges don’t fall under PSR. The charges include allegations that they broke PSR regulations between 2015 and 2018.

- City face 115 charges. It’s inconceivable that they’re all ‘too complex’ to have tackled a long time ago.

There is no acceptable reason for City to be behind Forest and Everton in the queue.

The reason their case hasn't been heard is because they have made numerous legal challenges that have had to go through the courts. In public, they say they have irrefutable evidence that proves their innocence. Privately they are trying to do a Trump and use their wealth to kick the can down the road.

 

[bcblue1878]

Not acceptable at all.

The whole process is a sham and and the politicians quizzing them today saw right through it.

I’m actually slightly more optimistic about the appeal and the impact on the second charge today than I was 24 hours ago! Watching that Parliamentary Committee make Masters look like an absolute fraud, and then the closing lines from the Chairwoman to him that “you don’t know what you’re doing”!
The KC we have hired will have been watching that with a great deal of interest, and making some very interesting notes and observations. He will take it up another level altogether when he gets his chance to speak and argue Everton’s case!

 

[Goat]

I’m actually slightly more optimistic about the appeal and the impact on the second charge today than I was 24 hours ago! Watching that Parliamentary Committee make Masters look like an absolute fraud, and then the closing lines from the Chairwoman to him that “you don’t know what you’re doing”!
The KC we have hired will have been watching that with a great deal of interest, and making some very interesting notes and observations. He will take it up another level altogether when he gets his chance to speak and argue Everton’s case!

Our KC will be talking to other KCs tho sadly, not Masters who is clearly a moron.

 

[Gallaeo]

Then it would have been deserved.

From what I can see we breached a 2nd time cos we submitted accounts that had already been told were wrong.

Its very possible that im wrong, cos I have yet to see actual figures, but thats my current POV, happy to be corrected with facts.

Ye, would like to see the accounts and see what the second charge is for.

 

[Goat]

who’s the lady in the everton top!

But to answer your question properly, this fine lady deserves her name to ring out.

 

[Gallaeo]

Wait and see, they;ll accept Forest’s defence that it made sense to postpone sale of Johnson to get more cash and allow them an add back of £30m.
despite telling us to do one saying we sold Richy on the cheap to have it in accounts!

 

[marnie]

So sad that the vast majority on here would rather shoot the messenger than come up with a counterargument.

Why don't you Just FFFF OFF and crawl back under the rock you came from.You TOTAL WEAPON.

 

[bcblue1878]

Our KC will be talking to other KCs tho sadly, not Masters who is clearly a moron.

True, but I’m not sure he’s helped his sides cause, and you’re being very harsh on a lot of morons out there by comparing them to him!

 

[matty1878]

You cannot even put together a coherent sentence. Please try and I know it will be tough for you and come up with a counterargument, please.

One of us is putting forward a well-researched point of view backed up by the actual findings from the report. Instead of engaging in a debate you are just throwing around unfounded, inaccurate insults.

your a filthy dirty red

that was a sentence now leg it

 

[PeregrineT]

That is completely and utterly wrong. Basic accounting procedures mean that expenditure cannot be capitalised until something is probable. Something is not probable until planning is granted. That isn't a Premier League rule it is the cornerstone of FRS 102.

We breached PSR rules two years ago and could have been charged with non-compliance.

What actually happened is that the Premier League and the club came to an agreement that the Premier League would not invoke rule E.51.2.. That meant we avoided being charged and a probable points deduction.


The 13 August 2021 agreement contained the following
(amongst other) terms.
1.2 During the Club's financial years 2017-2020 (inclusive), prior to the
financial year when planning permission for the Stadium was obtained,
the Club incurred costs of approximately £39,346,000 in respect of the
Stadium (the “Stadium Costs”). Given that the Stadium Costs were
incurred in the financial years prior to planning permission being
granted, under applicable accounting regulations, these costs cannot be
capitalised and must therefore be included in the Club’s PSR
Calculation.
1.3 The Club is forecast to be non-compliant with Rule E.51 of the Rules
by:
1.3.1 having a PSR Calculation with losses in excess of £105 million
(the “Threshold”) for Season 2020/21; and
1.3.2 potentially Season 2021/22 and 2022/23
(together the “Potential Non-Compliance”).
1.4 Subject to compliance by the Club with the conditions set out in
paragraph 2 of this Agreement (the “Conditions”), the Premier League
agrees that it will not, either during the Term or at any time after (i)
exercise its powers set out in Rule E.15 in respect of the Potential Non-
Compliance and/or (ii) refer the Potential Non-Compliance to a
Commission pursuant to Rule E.51.2.
2.1 The Club’s PSR Calculation for Seasons 2020/21, 2021/22 and 2022/23
(after the application of any mitigation or reduction by the Board in
accordance with the guidance it has issued in relation to the impact of
COVID-19) must not exceed the Threshold plus such portion of the
Costs as falls to be reported in the relevant period (the “Threshold
Condition”). For the avoidance of doubt, the relevant period is the
financial year in question and the two preceding financial years.


So instead of this being a witch hunt against us the Premier League actually helped us out. They also allowed us to include much bigger COVID losses £170m almost double the next biggest losses which was Arsenal at £86m followed by Villa at £56m.

They also allowed us to include £30m from Usmanov for an OPTION for naming rights despite no one else being interested. The Premier League bent over backwards to help us. When we failed PSR because of the long wait for planning they let us off. When we were going to fail again they allowed us ludicrous COVID losses. When we going to fail a third time Usmano was allowed to write a £30m cheque for an OPTION.

We were given chance after chance. Instead of heeding those chances Moshiri and the board ignored the warnings and tried to claim interest for working capital loans that were not used for the Stadium. Not only that but he tried to back date them.

32. In February 2022 Everton decided to pass on the interest charges payable
under the Rights & Media Funding Ltd and Metro Bank PLC loans by levying
interest on the inter-company loan to Everton Stadium Development Ltd.
The intention was that that interest would be calculated retrospectively from
FY 2018 and all charged in the FY 2022 accounts.


He tried to roll up years of interest charges for working capital and looked to pretend they were for the Stadium. This is despite there being documents that showed that the Stadium was funded by interest-free loans from Moshiri himself. The charge documents from the loans also stated that they were not for the Stadium.

Here are the documents in question.

Use of Funds
If the facility is successfully completed, the funds will be used for working capital facility
purposes. Hence, in the same way as the Rights and Media Funding Limited facility this
additional financing support will be used for operational purposes during the 2020/21
season.
We do not intend to use any of the funds for the new stadium project or to buy players in
the transfer window. These funds will be used to continue to support the Club and all of the
activities that the Club are involved in for the term of the facility.
That representation is incorporated into the Metro Bank PLC loan agreement
dated 29 April 2021. Clause 2.3 reads –
Purpose
The Borrower shall apply all amounts borrowed by it…towards the payment of
indebtedness and its working capital requirements



So there was no moving of the goalposts and there was no new rule. If anything the Premier League has been incredibly lenient with us. Instead of looking at things rationally and coming to the obvious conclusion that the club had pushed things too far we have a PR campaign calling the Premier League corrupt because they finally had enough of our ludicrous attempts to ride a coach and horses through PSR regulations.

Lenient? Thats laughable. And this isnt an accounting issue, its a PL rules issue. In those same documents you reference you conveniently ignore that the Secretary of State had no issue with their accounting of it. Everton brought to the PL the issue that they allowed excluding of stadium costs in some cases, but in their case they werent.

Since no club could possibly build a stadium and be profitable in the PL(a stadium costs 100+million a year and produces no income until finished), this makes perfect sense. It was absurd that you could exclude 100m in stadium costs in one case, and not 100m in another simply because of circumstances, considering neither gave a sporting advantage and had anything to do with play on the pitch. It was a bad loophole in the PL regulations, and the PL AGREED, before drawing up the August 13th agreement.

You probably think the referees have bene lenient as well, giving us what we deserve with 14 red cards to 0 and lowest pens in the league in years.

 

[Marius57]

The politicians shouldn’t be anywhere close to football some of their observations were extremely superficial and the discussion around dedicated slots to show womans football and indeed the issues re showing 3 pm kick offs was playing to the crowd.

Any football regulator will have to incorporate FIFA and UEFA directives and be governed primarily by the over arching rules that those two organisations agree through their respective confederations.

I am far from sure how those two bodies will view a Government appointed regulator as their view is that there should be no political / governmental interference.

But for me it the rush to throw out the Bath water with the baby there is a great risk that further regulation will stifle football for as opposed to the 20 PL clubs, the 70 + EFL clubs and the thousands of clubs affiliated to the FA each having a voice it will come down to the whims of just one individual namely the regulator.

Bear in mind that the Independent Panel that ruled on your recent case was a small group of individuals , probably swayed by the views of either one or two individuals who as I stated weeks ago had a bee in their bonnet about a fine nor pt being appropriate for a P&S breech

We all remember the clamour to introduce VAR and that went well didnt it ?

Var works in other places and in FIFA and UEFA competitions. It doesn’t in the PL and we all know why. It doesn’t really support your argument because there is one common factor in all of this - the PL.

The whole thing is a joke and unless you were on the right side of it when it was brought in and considered one of Master’s big clubs, like yours, then you won’t experience anything like what the other 14+ deal with. Football has gone already. The regulator won’t cause that.

 

[gwladysnight]

Wait and see, they;ll accept Forest’s defence that it made sense to postpone sale of Johnson to get more cash and allow them an add back of £30m.
despite telling us to do one saying we sold Richy on the cheap to have it in accounts!

The Johnson sale isn't a defence it is a mitigation.

 

[PITA]

I'm an Everton fan you muppet!

Sorry, I liked Caso's post without seeing who he responded to. My mistake.

 

[Goat]

That is completely and utterly wrong. Basic accounting procedures mean that expenditure cannot be capitalised until something is probable. Something is not probable until planning is granted. That isn't a Premier League rule it is the cornerstone of FRS 102.

We breached PSR rules two years ago and could have been charged with non-compliance.

What actually happened is that the Premier League and the club came to an agreement that the Premier League would not invoke rule E.51.2.. That meant we avoided being charged and a probable points deduction.


The 13 August 2021 agreement contained the following
(amongst other) terms.
1.2 During the Club's financial years 2017-2020 (inclusive), prior to the
financial year when planning permission for the Stadium was obtained,
the Club incurred costs of approximately £39,346,000 in respect of the
Stadium (the “Stadium Costs”). Given that the Stadium Costs were
incurred in the financial years prior to planning permission being
granted, under applicable accounting regulations, these costs cannot be
capitalised and must therefore be included in the Club’s PSR
Calculation.
1.3 The Club is forecast to be non-compliant with Rule E.51 of the Rules
by:
1.3.1 having a PSR Calculation with losses in excess of £105 million
(the “Threshold”) for Season 2020/21; and
1.3.2 potentially Season 2021/22 and 2022/23
(together the “Potential Non-Compliance”).
1.4 Subject to compliance by the Club with the conditions set out in
paragraph 2 of this Agreement (the “Conditions”), the Premier League
agrees that it will not, either during the Term or at any time after (i)
exercise its powers set out in Rule E.15 in respect of the Potential Non-
Compliance and/or (ii) refer the Potential Non-Compliance to a
Commission pursuant to Rule E.51.2.
2.1 The Club’s PSR Calculation for Seasons 2020/21, 2021/22 and 2022/23
(after the application of any mitigation or reduction by the Board in
accordance with the guidance it has issued in relation to the impact of
COVID-19) must not exceed the Threshold plus such portion of the
Costs as falls to be reported in the relevant period (the “Threshold
Condition”). For the avoidance of doubt, the relevant period is the
financial year in question and the two preceding financial years.


So instead of this being a witch hunt against us the Premier League actually helped us out. They also allowed us to include much bigger COVID losses £170m almost double the next biggest losses which was Arsenal at £86m followed by Villa at £56m.

They also allowed us to include £30m from Usmanov for an OPTION for naming rights despite no one else being interested. The Premier League bent over backwards to help us. When we failed PSR because of the long wait for planning they let us off. When we were going to fail again they allowed us ludicrous COVID losses. When we going to fail a third time Usmano was allowed to write a £30m cheque for an OPTION.

We were given chance after chance. Instead of heeding those chances Moshiri and the board ignored the warnings and tried to claim interest for working capital loans that were not used for the Stadium. Not only that but he tried to back date them.

32. In February 2022 Everton decided to pass on the interest charges payable
under the Rights & Media Funding Ltd and Metro Bank PLC loans by levying
interest on the inter-company loan to Everton Stadium Development Ltd.
The intention was that that interest would be calculated retrospectively from
FY 2018 and all charged in the FY 2022 accounts.


He tried to roll up years of interest charges for working capital and looked to pretend they were for the Stadium. This is despite there being documents that showed that the Stadium was funded by interest-free loans from Moshiri himself. The charge documents from the loans also stated that they were not for the Stadium.

Here are the documents in question.

Use of Funds
If the facility is successfully completed, the funds will be used for working capital facility
purposes. Hence, in the same way as the Rights and Media Funding Limited facility this
additional financing support will be used for operational purposes during the 2020/21
season.
We do not intend to use any of the funds for the new stadium project or to buy players in
the transfer window. These funds will be used to continue to support the Club and all of the
activities that the Club are involved in for the term of the facility.
That representation is incorporated into the Metro Bank PLC loan agreement
dated 29 April 2021. Clause 2.3 reads –
Purpose
The Borrower shall apply all amounts borrowed by it…towards the payment of
indebtedness and its working capital requirements



So there was no moving of the goalposts and there was no new rule. If anything the Premier League has been incredibly lenient with us. Instead of looking at things rationally and coming to the obvious conclusion that the club had pushed things too far we have a PR campaign calling the Premier League corrupt because they finally had enough of our ludicrous attempts to ride a coach and horses through PSR regulations.

I know this lad is currently in the process of a mass pile on, but not a single word he says here is wrong you know.