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Player Loyalty

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Jacob

Player Valuation: £35m
Interesting article in this morning's Times regarding Bilic with Payet now....and Bilic with us then.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...-startlingly-stupid-or-self-deluded-xs8l86k28

January 16 2017, 12:01am, The Times
Fans who demand player loyalty are startlingly stupid or self-deluded
Matthew Syed, Columnist of the Year

For all the badge kissing, stars look out for their own interests like anyone in the job market

I think we have to acknowledge that a critical mass of football fans are stupid. These are the ones who bleat about disloyalty, who feel betrayed every time a player leaves their club, who fail to see that every player joining their club has left a previous one in turn and who go on to those tedious message boards to sound off about the injustice of it all.

What is going on in their heads? Are they so deluded to think that when a player kisses the badge, he is revealing his undying love? Can they not see through the pretence when players talk about their deep connection with the fans? Do they not realise that footballers, like most people in the job market, are looking out for their own interests, and those of their families
And do they not perceive their own hypocrisy? When fans moan about a lack of loyalty from players, they rarely reflect on the times they have called for an underperforming player to be axed. They rarely remember, when they bleat about the disloyalty of managers, that they are the first to call for a ritual execution when a result or two goes against them. Where is the loyalty then?


Football is not constructed upon loyalty, but the mirage of loyalty. Owners pretend they are loyal to the institutions they preside over, when their real motives are commercial or Machiavellian. Fans claim loyalty to managers — indeed, to revere them — without acknowledging that this loyalty is contingent on success, and is therefore not loyalty at all. Players claim that they are loyal to their clubs, but only until the point when they receive an inflated offer from Tianjin Quanjian.

And this is why the saga surrounding Dimitri Payet is so exquisitely timed. Slaven Bilic, the West Ham United manager, said that he felt “let down and angry” by his star performer agitating to leave the club and effectively going on strike. “He’s our best player and that’s why we gave him a long contract,” he said. “We gave him everything, we were always there for him. I expect him to show commitment.” Bilic is now cast as a hero to West Ham fans, as he calls for Payet to demonstrate the loyalty they crave.
But now rewind to March 1997 when Bilic was a player for West Ham, having left Karlsruhe for a juicy contract in east London. Back then, it was Harry Redknapp (the West Ham manager) who was “bitter and angry” after Bilic was approached with an even higher offer from Everton. “He’s the highest paid player in the club’s history,” Redknapp said. “He signed it . . . Now he wants a move and feels Everton are a big club, so there’s nothing we can do. West Ham are a big club in our eyes, but he feels otherwise.”


Sound like déjà vu? And yet here is the coup de grâce, the icing on the cake of hypocrisy. Bilic the player, responding to Redknapp, had a very different perspective to the one he parrots so convincingly today. “I had to do this,” he said when signing for Everton. “We are professionals — all players know, if anyone gets the chance of a big club, he must take it.”

These quotes, unearthed by David Hills of The Observer, should be stapled to the bedroom walls (or foreheads) of fans. This is football uncut. Football uncensored. Football as it really is. Sure, there are a handful of genuinely loyal players, but many of even the most revered icons bear little resemblance to the mythology. John Terry, for instance, used an approach by Manchester City in 2009 to leverage an enhanced offer from Chelsea, increasing his wages to a then astonishing £150,000 a week.

I don’t blame Terry for seeking a bigger deal; but I do retain the right to highlight his hypocrisy having secured it. Despite having gone silent for most of the summer while his agents threatened his departure from west London, he issued this announcement after the new contract was signed: “I am totally committed to Chelsea and always have been.” In much the same way, Diego Costa tweeted a blue love heart on Saturday as his team-mates, deprived of his company, defeated Leicester City.


So, why can’t fans see through the charade? Shouldn’t it be obvious to anyone with common sense that loyalty in football is a currency used to curry favour until the precise moment it can be cashed in? This is loyalty as make-believe, as a necessary myth. It is fans so desperately wanting to believe that the player whose name they chant reciprocates their fidelity that they ignore the fact his agent is, even now, on the phone to Shanghai.

Some of the furore over Payet is, of course, concerned with him recently signing a five-year deal. It has been argued that clubs should sue players who don’t turn up to training for breach of contract, a view with which I concur. They should also litigate against those who feign or exaggerate injuries. If clubs were bolder in these situations, it would signal, at the very least, that contracts have legal status and that cannot be wilfully ignored.

But the wider point remains. The only true loyalty in football is that of fans towards their clubs. This is the loyalty to cleave to the club even when they are relegated, to go to away games on a snowy day. It is the loyalty captured so beautifully by Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch. “Family and friends know, after years of wearying experience, that the fixture list always has the last word in any arrangement; they understand, or at least accept, that christenings or weddings or any gatherings, which in other families would take unquestioned precedence, can only be plotted after consultation.”

Everything else is carefully choreographed make-believe. Even Payet followed the script when signing his £125,000-a-week deal in February. “The love affair continues,” he said. “For me it’s a big step, an enormous show of faith from the chairman and manager . . . I’m proud to prolong my adventure with West Ham.” He also voiced the following words over an emotive soundtrack put together by West Ham’s multimedia department. “When you sing my name, I feel big. I feel strong. I can feel your support. I can feel your trust. I love to entertain our fans. I want to succeed with them.”

The words sound hollow now, but shouldn’t they have done so at the time? That they didn’t reveals either startling levels of stupidity among some fans, or a quite breathtaking capacity for self-delusion.
 

completely true.

If i was a footballer for everton and at 26-27 got offered a 5 year contract for like 300 grand a week or whatever they go for now, i'd jump at it.

People seem to forget once a player is retired then that is that, if they can't go into management or something then they have to get a day job and deal with that, which brings other 'issues' into it.

So grab as much money as you can whilst you can and balls to loyalty.
 
If a player wants to leave, let them leave. But the least they should do is play their best whilst they're at the club. That's the only loyalty I would expect.

Hence plenty of respect for Fellaini, never piped up, played the game til the very end, and has still never said a bad word about Everton.
 
in modern day football there is no loyalty and us fans should just accept it.

the only time i would expect a bit of loyalty is from home grown players, but as with rooney, we can not expect to keep hold of them if they have a way better financial package on the table and we dont want to match it.

business is business, and thats what football is.
 

completely true.

If i was a footballer for everton and at 26-27 got offered a 5 year contract for like 300 grand a week or whatever they go for now, i'd jump at it.

People seem to forget once a player is retired then that is that, if they can't go into management or something then they have to get a day job and deal with that, which brings other 'issues' into it.

So grab as much money as you can whilst you can and balls to loyalty.
Tough one Ash.
Any other team I'd be off like a shot, but if I was lucky enough to pull on that blue shirt it would be upsetting to leave. I'm not sure my heart would let me.
 
Tough one Ash.
Any other team I'd be off like a shot, but if I was lucky enough to pull on that blue shirt it would be upsetting to leave. I'm not sure my heart would let me.

Don't get me wrong, if i was on my way to being a club legend or something then that might keep me at the club. You always want your home club to be building a statue of you and stuff haha

but generally, as an average footballer? I'd take the money personally. seeing as though it isn't like getting an extra 10 grand by going to watford, bit an additional 300 grand a week. A million a month, you would be daft to turn that down in a finite career.
 
Don't get me wrong, if i was on my way to being a club legend or something then that might keep me at the club. You always want your home club to be building a statue of you and stuff haha

but generally, as an average footballer? I'd take the money personally. seeing as though it isn't like getting an extra 10 grand by going to watford, bit an additional 300 grand a week. A million a month, you would be daft to turn that down in a finite career.
You already are a club legend mate.
GOT legend too.
Take it easy.
 
Interesting article in this morning's Times regarding Bilic with Payet now....and Bilic with us then.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...-startlingly-stupid-or-self-deluded-xs8l86k28

January 16 2017, 12:01am, The Times
Fans who demand player loyalty are startlingly stupid or self-deluded
Matthew Syed, Columnist of the Year

For all the badge kissing, stars look out for their own interests like anyone in the job market

I think we have to acknowledge that a critical mass of football fans are stupid. These are the ones who bleat about disloyalty, who feel betrayed every time a player leaves their club, who fail to see that every player joining their club has left a previous one in turn and who go on to those tedious message boards to sound off about the injustice of it all.

What is going on in their heads? Are they so deluded to think that when a player kisses the badge, he is revealing his undying love? Can they not see through the pretence when players talk about their deep connection with the fans? Do they not realise that footballers, like most people in the job market, are looking out for their own interests, and those of their families
And do they not perceive their own hypocrisy? When fans moan about a lack of loyalty from players, they rarely reflect on the times they have called for an underperforming player to be axed. They rarely remember, when they bleat about the disloyalty of managers, that they are the first to call for a ritual execution when a result or two goes against them. Where is the loyalty then?


Football is not constructed upon loyalty, but the mirage of loyalty. Owners pretend they are loyal to the institutions they preside over, when their real motives are commercial or Machiavellian. Fans claim loyalty to managers — indeed, to revere them — without acknowledging that this loyalty is contingent on success, and is therefore not loyalty at all. Players claim that they are loyal to their clubs, but only until the point when they receive an inflated offer from Tianjin Quanjian.

And this is why the saga surrounding Dimitri Payet is so exquisitely timed. Slaven Bilic, the West Ham United manager, said that he felt “let down and angry” by his star performer agitating to leave the club and effectively going on strike. “He’s our best player and that’s why we gave him a long contract,” he said. “We gave him everything, we were always there for him. I expect him to show commitment.” Bilic is now cast as a hero to West Ham fans, as he calls for Payet to demonstrate the loyalty they crave.
But now rewind to March 1997 when Bilic was a player for West Ham, having left Karlsruhe for a juicy contract in east London. Back then, it was Harry Redknapp (the West Ham manager) who was “bitter and angry” after Bilic was approached with an even higher offer from Everton. “He’s the highest paid player in the club’s history,” Redknapp said. “He signed it . . . Now he wants a move and feels Everton are a big club, so there’s nothing we can do. West Ham are a big club in our eyes, but he feels otherwise.”


Sound like déjà vu? And yet here is the coup de grâce, the icing on the cake of hypocrisy. Bilic the player, responding to Redknapp, had a very different perspective to the one he parrots so convincingly today. “I had to do this,” he said when signing for Everton. “We are professionals — all players know, if anyone gets the chance of a big club, he must take it.”

These quotes, unearthed by David Hills of The Observer, should be stapled to the bedroom walls (or foreheads) of fans. This is football uncut. Football uncensored. Football as it really is. Sure, there are a handful of genuinely loyal players, but many of even the most revered icons bear little resemblance to the mythology. John Terry, for instance, used an approach by Manchester City in 2009 to leverage an enhanced offer from Chelsea, increasing his wages to a then astonishing £150,000 a week.

I don’t blame Terry for seeking a bigger deal; but I do retain the right to highlight his hypocrisy having secured it. Despite having gone silent for most of the summer while his agents threatened his departure from west London, he issued this announcement after the new contract was signed: “I am totally committed to Chelsea and always have been.” In much the same way, Diego Costa tweeted a blue love heart on Saturday as his team-mates, deprived of his company, defeated Leicester City.


So, why can’t fans see through the charade? Shouldn’t it be obvious to anyone with common sense that loyalty in football is a currency used to curry favour until the precise moment it can be cashed in? This is loyalty as make-believe, as a necessary myth. It is fans so desperately wanting to believe that the player whose name they chant reciprocates their fidelity that they ignore the fact his agent is, even now, on the phone to Shanghai.

Some of the furore over Payet is, of course, concerned with him recently signing a five-year deal. It has been argued that clubs should sue players who don’t turn up to training for breach of contract, a view with which I concur. They should also litigate against those who feign or exaggerate injuries. If clubs were bolder in these situations, it would signal, at the very least, that contracts have legal status and that cannot be wilfully ignored.

But the wider point remains. The only true loyalty in football is that of fans towards their clubs. This is the loyalty to cleave to the club even when they are relegated, to go to away games on a snowy day. It is the loyalty captured so beautifully by Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch. “Family and friends know, after years of wearying experience, that the fixture list always has the last word in any arrangement; they understand, or at least accept, that christenings or weddings or any gatherings, which in other families would take unquestioned precedence, can only be plotted after consultation.”

Everything else is carefully choreographed make-believe. Even Payet followed the script when signing his £125,000-a-week deal in February. “The love affair continues,” he said. “For me it’s a big step, an enormous show of faith from the chairman and manager . . . I’m proud to prolong my adventure with West Ham.” He also voiced the following words over an emotive soundtrack put together by West Ham’s multimedia department. “When you sing my name, I feel big. I feel strong. I can feel your support. I can feel your trust. I love to entertain our fans. I want to succeed with them.”

The words sound hollow now, but shouldn’t they have done so at the time? That they didn’t reveals either startling levels of stupidity among some fans, or a quite breathtaking capacity for self-delusion.
How True.

Payet / Bilic / West Ham / the new stadium etc. - huge Karmatic rebound

Short Version; If you want loyalty get a dog...otherwise, it is what it is, get on with it.
 
Last edited:

99% of them have loyalty to one thing and one thing only. It's a job. They all do it for the...
mny1.gif

We all do.
 
completely true.

If i was a footballer for everton and at 26-27 got offered a 5 year contract for like 300 grand a week or whatever they go for now, i'd jump at it.

People seem to forget once a player is retired then that is that, if they can't go into management or something then they have to get a day job and deal with that, which brings other 'issues' into it.

So grab as much money as you can whilst you can and balls to loyalty.

I accept that I may be an outlier, but I disagree. The average Premier League salary is over £2 million a year. For sake of argument, lets say a ten year career, that's £20 million earned. To put that into context, the average income over a working lifetime is around the £1 million mark. So even if footballers do no other work during their lifetime, they're incredibly well off. Even if their income isn't invested and giving them an earning during their post-playing years, they've very well off. So I don't buy the argument that they need to cash in as they already have more money than they need by some distance. When you're earning more money than you can spend, the money itself ceases to have utility in terms of its spending power.

I'm inclined to think that for many of the top players their income is much less about needing it to spend on things as it is status compared to their peers. If you think you're a comparable player to Lukaku, for instance, then you'll demand Lukaku like wages. If you think you're a CL/title contending type of player, you'll demand to go to a CL/title contending type club.

The thing is, going to some backwater league in China does none of that. It doesn't raise your status in the eyes of your peers, it doesn't give you a chance to compete for the greatest honours in the game, it just gives you even more money that you won't be able to spend.
 
I accept that I may be an outlier, but I disagree. The average Premier League salary is over £2 million a year. For sake of argument, lets say a ten year career, that's £20 million earned. To put that into context, the average income over a working lifetime is around the £1 million mark. So even if footballers do no other work during their lifetime, they're incredibly well off. Even if their income isn't invested and giving them an earning during their post-playing years, they've very well off. So I don't buy the argument that they need to cash in as they already have more money than they need by some distance. When you're earning more money than you can spend, the money itself ceases to have utility in terms of its spending power.

I'm inclined to think that for many of the top players their income is much less about needing it to spend on things as it is status compared to their peers. If you think you're a comparable player to Lukaku, for instance, then you'll demand Lukaku like wages. If you think you're a CL/title contending type of player, you'll demand to go to a CL/title contending type club.

The thing is, going to some backwater league in China does none of that. It doesn't raise your status in the eyes of your peers, it doesn't give you a chance to compete for the greatest honours in the game, it just gives you even more money that you won't be able to spend.
See i agree with you in one regard. The wages are normally very high anyway in all honesty (just look at our squad wages!) and yes, playing for the top honours is important as a player.

At the same time though, the players may not need the money but think of the long term effect of it. 3 years at 300 grand a week gives you a total of 468 00000 million to spend. Or not spend, put away, create security for both yourself and your family. Imagine the situation as a dad that could set your kids up for life, and their kids and so on. Create a financial situation where your family name is set for a couple of generations at least. You can provide for your grandkids and their kids. sure you can do that with your 50 grand a week easily but the way i see it is that it creates some sort of financial guarantee for the future. the money might not be needed but an opportunity to earn that amount even for just a few years before coming back? It is like getting a job doing what we do in china with 10 times the wages at least, most of us would largely consider it if you knew it wasn't permanent just as a means to earn that level of money.

and more to the point, how many of these footballers are well off to begin with? a lot of players from other countries come from poverty, who play football as a kid and turn out quite good at it. Who can then set their family up for life, and more so by moving on. Even the opportunity to do that, when you grow up poor, in a poor country? Would change opinion of whether that silly contract in china is as mad as it might look to us.

I'm not disagreeing with you, i actually do agree with what you mean. Just trying to offer a different side of the argument as to why earning silly money might be appealing over winning trophies. After all, winning trophies isn't guaranteed, a million pounds a month is though.
 
See i agree with you in one regard. The wages are normally very high anyway in all honesty (just look at our squad wages!) and yes, playing for the top honours is important as a player.

At the same time though, the players may not need the money but think of the long term effect of it. 3 years at 300 grand a week gives you a total of 468 00000 million to spend. Or not spend, put away, create security for both yourself and your family. Imagine the situation as a dad that could set your kids up for life, and their kids and so on. Create a financial situation where your family name is set for a couple of generations at least. You can provide for your grandkids and their kids. sure you can do that with your 50 grand a week easily but the way i see it is that it creates some sort of financial guarantee for the future. the money might not be needed but an opportunity to earn that amount even for just a few years before coming back? It is like getting a job doing what we do in china with 10 times the wages at least, most of us would largely consider it if you knew it wasn't permanent just as a means to earn that level of money.

and more to the point, how many of these footballers are well off to begin with? a lot of players from other countries come from poverty, who play football as a kid and turn out quite good at it. Who can then set their family up for life, and more so by moving on. Even the opportunity to do that, when you grow up poor, in a poor country? Would change opinion of whether that silly contract in china is as mad as it might look to us.

I'm not disagreeing with you, i actually do agree with what you mean. Just trying to offer a different side of the argument as to why earning silly money might be appealing over winning trophies. After all, winning trophies isn't guaranteed, a million pounds a month is though.

Again, this is just me so I'm not judging players that go out to China, but if I have a family, it isn't enough to provide for them by hook or by crook. I think you need to set a good example and do things the right way. I'm also not really on board with the notion that it's healthy for kids to have everything put on a plate for them.

Heck, I'd find the idea of 'retiring' at 30/35 a bit weird to be honest. Life is best when it has a purpose to it. Dossing about wouldn't be much fun I don't think.
 

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