New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Eggsyblueskin]

You forgotten who the current Govt is?

Some beards crying about filling in a derelict and unused dock as part of multi £BN redevelopment scheme isn’t getting a second glance.

Unfortunately this government is headed by a person who is at best antipathetic to this city. Who has during his career made several derisory or hostile comments directed at our metropolis.
The Tory party is still wedded to the ‘benign neglect’ strategy and its policies are too close to the Tory ‘think tank’ proposals of a few years ago for my liking ,which suggested starving the area of funds to encourage people to move to the outskirts of London or to a swathe of new builds between Oxford and Cambridge. Thereby effectively depopulating Merseyside.
Given the lack of Tory voters on Merseyside there is little incentive for them to change their hostile stance,
Which is a longwinded way of saying I wouldn’t trust this government as far as I could spit into a gale force wind.

 

[GwladysPhil]

Without pulling up every quote, I'm sure you have stated on many occasions that the stadium would never be built. As for testing the resolve of the financial & building partners, this was always a possibility, in fact it was a certainty that the people who moan about builds like this such as UNESCO & Heritage England were always going to moan. They were hardly going to sit there & say nowt. If you're a lender or builder then you're smart enough to know this. It's not testing resolve at all in my book. It's a huge project that is good for the club, good for the lender & good for the builder even after a few obstacles. I simply don't see it going to the SoS as it would be a waste of everyones time. No other significant alterations will get made to the design either so it's either this ground or nothing & too many people need this to happen including the government who will milk it.

There’s a difference between justified pressure / criticism and injecting toxic negative pessimism.

Anyone in or has close connections in the construction industry via LOR know this is being done, they did a few years ago.

Tbf I can just about understand why Davek is this negative, it’s not good but it’s more relatable than someone like the Esk who uses his manipulated following to generate fear to boost his own profile.

 

[Jacko93]

How is it a red line filling in the dock? How exactly will they build the stadium? Make it float? Put bits of wood over the gap and hope it holds? Filling in the dock was always going to happen. Heritage knew it and so did we. Yes its a calculated risk, business generally is. But stopping the whole thing just because English heritage didn't want the dock filled in is just ludicrous.

I am not sure they hold as much sway as people think. If LCC approve I highly doubt Government will overturn it.

Well, there Was a design put in front of the club that did exactly that..

 

[Catfish Blues]

My head was forced into that bucket, so I have every right to complain.

You do very well to sound coherent considering you're talking through a bucketful of faeces.

That's a compliment by the way.

 

[number4.]

There’s a difference between justified pressure / criticism and injecting toxic negative pessimism.

Anyone in or has close connections in the construction industry via LOR know this is being done, they did a few years ago.

Tbf I can just about understand why Davek is this negative, it’s not good but it’s more relatable than someone like the Esk who uses his manipulated following to generate fear to boost his own profile.

Surely the key words here are "a few years ago". Go back to last year and I would have said with 100% confidence this stadium is getting built. I think the crusty heritage brigade is an obstacle that will be overcome with time, but I am more concerned about the impact of Covid. Not just in terms of the impact of crowds in the here and now, but no one understands the medium term implications here for sports revenue and thus the financial viability of BMD.

Fundamentally, from a financially prudent POV, it would be utter madness to go and build a stadium over the next two / three years. You wouldn't build a hotel in ibiza, invest in Aircraft or build a theatre, the same applies to sports stadia. The best we can hope for is ego drives this through to build, but if its an investment based decision, it is not happening for a good while.

 

[Catfish Blues]

You wouldn't build a hotel in ibiza, invest in Aircraft or build a theatre, the same applies to sports stadia.

I get, and, to a certain extent agree with your overall point, but sports stadia are, to some extent, different. Regrettably, hotels, airlines and theatres are likely to go bust because of COVID, so new businesses that come along will be able to pick and choose what assets they pick up on the cheap to help get them up and running.

Barring our pesky neighbours going bust, the chances of us picking up a stadium on the cheap in the vicinity are zero. If, long term, COVID makes the business of running live sporting events unprofitable, then everyone that relies on old fashioned stadia to keep going is well and truly goosed.

TV money would act as a buffer, but any club that doesn't have a big non-matchday commercial arm or a strong corporate matchday offering ( it's far easier to socially distance the posh seats than where I sit ) could easily be knackered. Raising the money now will undoubtebly be harder than it was pre-COVID, but a new stadium is still important, and, though there's more risk involved, the business case still makes sense.

 

[number4.]

I get, and, to a certain extent agree with your overall point, but sports stadia are, to some extent, different. Regrettably, hotels, airlines and theatres are likely to go bust because of COVID, so new businesses that come along will be able to pick and choose what assets they pick up on the cheap to help get them up and running.

Barring our pesky neighbours going bust, the chances of us picking up a stadium on the cheap in the vicinity are zero. If, long term, COVID makes the business of running live sporting events unprofitable, then everyone that relies on old fashioned stadia to keep going is well and truly goosed.

TV money would act as a buffer, but any club that doesn't have a big non-matchday commercial arm or a strong corporate matchday offering ( it's far easier to socially distance the posh seats than where I sit ) could easily be knackered. Raising the money now will undoubtebly be harder than it was pre-COVID, but a new stadium is still important, and, though there's more risk involved, the business case still makes sense.

You're right, they are different & the emotional (Egotistical) pull to get this stadium built as well with make a huge difference as well hopefully. My argument on business case is at the moment, you simply can't make one - investors & the club need to understand what Crowds returning to sport & revenues (TV&Sponsorship) look like before starting to build. I'd be shocked if there isn't an 18 month + delay announced as soon as planning is granted

 

[Bluestar]

Surely the key words here are "a few years ago". Go back to last year and I would have said with 100% confidence this stadium is getting built. I think the crusty heritage brigade is an obstacle that will be overcome with time, but I am more concerned about the impact of Covid. Not just in terms of the impact of crowds in the here and now, but no one understands the medium term implications here for sports revenue and thus the financial viability of BMD.

Fundamentally, from a financially prudent POV, it would be utter madness to go and build a stadium over the next two / three years. You wouldn't build a hotel in ibiza, invest in Aircraft or build a theatre, the same applies to sports stadia. The best we can hope for is ego drives this through to build, but if its an investment based decision, it is not happening for a good while.

The stadium will take three to four years to build. The Covid crisis will be long gone By the time it opens. Right now is a great time to build as materials are cheaper, construction prices are lower and finance costs are low. Building now could save a fortune.

 

[number4.]

The stadium will take three to four years to build. The Covid crisis will be long gone By the time it opens. Right now is a great time to build as materials are cheaper, construction prices are lower and finance costs are low. Building now could save a fortune.

hopefully, but there is a huge assumption in that. I can't see them starting till it's clear that fans are back properly though

 

[Bluestar]

hopefully, but there is a huge assumption in that. I can't see them starting till it's clear that fans are back properly though

I don’t think it’s much of a risk really. its three to four years away. If we’re not back in stadia by then, football will have disappeared.
In truth, we’ll be back in some capacity this year. The various vaccines will start becoming available in the new year.
The impact of Brexit is a bigger risk as it’s such an unknown venture.

 

[Moomin]

The stadium will take three to four years to build. The Covid crisis will be long gone By the time it opens. Right now is a great time to build as materials are cheaper, construction prices are lower and finance costs are low. Building now could save a fortune.

Construction prices are not lower at all.

 

[Bluestar]

Construction prices are not lower at all.

Construction collapsed. There are greatt deals to be had. I work in the field and I’ve seen it,

 

[number4.]

Construction collapsed. There are greatt deals to be had. I work in the field and I’ve seen it,

I don't disagree with that at all & there is definitely value to be driven at the moment. My point is they will need to be sure of the viability of sports stadia first.

 

[number4.]

Construction collapsed. There are greatt deals to be had. I work in the field and I’ve seen it,

I don't disagree with that at all & there is definitely value to be driven at the moment. My point is they will need to be sure of the viability of sports stadia first.

 

[Bluestar]

I don't disagree with that at all & there is definitely value to be driven at the moment. My point is they will need to be sure of the viability of sports stadia first.

Fair enough. However, Morshi‘s model for making money at Everton seems tied into delivering the stadium To increase the value of the brand and increase the revenue. Building the stadium is central to it all. I’m sure it will happen because he’s invested so much already.