New Stadium Discussion


GwladysPhil

Player Valuation: £20m
The timeline doesn’t bother me. It’s the apparent scaling back of ambition from Everton that’s annoying. Whether the club said it or not, the architect they employed turned up at events organised by them and showed diagrams showing a home stand in comparison to the yellow wall at Dortmund, bigger than the kop. He said it would be state of the art and iconic. He talked about building the best club stadium in England. He said the capacity might be an open question but then cryptically tweeted about 61,878 multiple times. He also promised pictures in a few weeks. That was a year ago.

Since then, no pictures, the capacity has been scaled back to one that’s now smaller than every other top 6 stadium’s existing capacity even those looking to expand further! And leaked documents showed a generic stadium scaled back significantly in comparison to those initial diagrams seen. All the time during this the club have again said absolutely nothing allowing the timeline slip by a year without saying anything. It’s their modus operandi. Ever since Elstone’s time they’re absolutely terrified of engaging with fans so just say absolutely nothing.

It’s about expectation setting. If the club had been looking at city centre sites then said they were going to build a 52k stadium on the waterfront and put a realistic timeline on it then everyone would have been buzzing about getting the waterfront.

Instead they allowed other people such as Meis and Anderson to come out with timelines that have been completely unrealistic and there’s the sinking feeling that the initial designs may also be unrealistic too. I’d actually respect the club if they were just honest and fake out and said ‘ you know what guys it was harder and more expensive than we thought so we’ve scaled it down and it’s going to be late’. People could accept that and still be positive about a new stadium on the Mersey. I stead they say absolutely nothing. Every press release is more guff telling people precisely nothing. Whole presentations with no more new news whatsoever in it.

They’re just an absolute cowardly exec team who approach everything absolutely soiling their pants going for a safety first cautious down playing approach with a comms plan of saying nothing hoping the fans base don’t notice. They’ve done it for years and after a while you just get sick of it. The phantom retail development behind the park end, the WHP that was basically Bill’s day dream as he passed in his car. All cancelled with barely a word to the fan base.
That retail development was nuts.

They went from showing this cool looking building, then scaling it down, then just acting like it never happened.
 

Baileyjon

Player Valuation: £500k
We finished 8th that season, after the "2 points from 8 games" start.

When the actual new stadium was announced (2015) we'd had just one season of Champions League football (under Redknapp five years earlier) and Poch was still a bit of an unknown quantity. When it was being designed and costed it would've been during AVB's and Sherwood's tenures. Very much a Europa League team.

Most significantly if we're making comparisons to your situation, our stadium has always been costed on the basis of us retaining Premier League football (and the broadcast revenues that come with it), not on the assumption of regular Champions League.

My gut tells me you're overstating this. Sure we've been a top 6 club for more a less a decade now but not a regular Champions League one until very recently (i.e. after we announced the new stadium). And yes, we have London prices but we also have London costs. There's also a stadium up the road from yours with the third highest matchday revenue of any stadium in England. So I don't think it's that black and white.

I still think, as I've always thought, a Premier League team with a fanbase the size of yours should be able to build a new stadium. I'll be optimistic for ya! I still reckon things are on track.
The striking thing though is that you have massively exceeded expectations but still haven't been able to invest in your playing squad. Our match day revenue for season 17-18 was £18.9m that is less than a £1m a game. That is absolute peanuts and simply doesn't stack up against paying for a new Stadium. The stark reality is that 80% of our revenue comes from TV money.

Yes we do have a great fanbase, however that fanbase has become accustomed to incredibly cheap prices. Our matchday spend per fan is just over £20 a game. That simply doesn't correlate to paying for a Stadium that is likely to end up costing north of half a billion pound.

I think there are very good reasons for the Stadium being downsized and pushed back, it simply doesn't make sense from a financial point of view unless the owner pays for the Stadium. More than double the spend per fan to say £50 per fan, sell 50,000 seats every week and by the time you finance the Stadium you are back to square one. We simply can't afford to charge the kind of prices that Spurs do. Our Junior season tickets cost £95 yours cost £397.50 to £562.50. Our Adult season tickets cost £420-£565 yours cost £795-£1995.

I think the time has come for Moshiri to show us the money or move on.
 

The binman chronicles

Player Valuation: £70m
There are weighting differences as you say. Behind the goal I think Newcastle has about 58/68 rows? Ours is 66?
Newcastle has a step up for a tier which our South Stand doesn't so it's possible you could knock off the last 5-10 rows at Newcastle to see an equivalent to our views. As I said on the other post it won't be row for row alike, but it's possibly the closest example we'd get.
Not sure about it to be honest. Apparently their larger end is taller than Man utd's SAF stand and that would also make it bigger than the RS hole puncher. That dwarfs our plans in those documents. I counted 72 rows give or take in SJP, then as you mention there is at least 3 flat sections in front of the entrances/exits that you could fit 2 rows in and then there looks to be a double row of hospitality higher up and just for good measure another step up again. All this is pushing it higher and further back. Can't see it being anything like ours to be honest.

The closest you can get I'd imagine is if you can find a picture of Spurs' new single tier stand from the back, ours would have 10 or so less rows but be steeper so height would not be that much difference and ours should be a little bit closer to the pitch.
 

roydo

Moderator
Staff member
I think the time has come for Moshiri to show us the money or move on.
The thing is, in my opinion, his, (and his boss), see the ground as the key to eye watering profits elsewhere in the whole development.

His calculation will be, again, in my opinion, is it worth me, (and his boss), providing/guaranteeing/sourcing the stadium build versus the returns elsewhere. In other words, IF the stadium is as "Key" to the whole playground as we are told, then the answer is clear. If not, (which I doubt), THEN he will move on.

My opinion. Deffo not sourced. Just join dots.
 

Big Neville Southall

Player Valuation: £6m
Not sure about it to be honest. Apparently their larger end is taller than Man utd's SAF stand and that would also make it bigger than the RS hole puncher. That dwarfs our plans in those documents. I counted 72 rows give or take in SJP, then as you mention there is at least 3 flat sections in front of the entrances/exits that you could fit 2 rows in and then there looks to be a double row of hospitality higher up and just for good measure another step up again. All this is pushing it higher and further back. Can't see it being anything like ours to be honest.

The closest you can get I'd imagine is if you can find a picture of Spurs' new single tier stand from the back, ours would have 10 or so less rows but be steeper so height would not be that much difference and ours should be a little bit closer to the pitch.
There's the jump in height for St James with the tier addition, so that could mean thatif yu want to see what Bramley is like on row 60, go to say row 50 of St James' for example.

The Lower tier of St James's has a steepness to it as well so another equivalent would be the first 30-40 rows of St James could be similar to the Bramley.

Also, the upper tier in St James' I wouldn't be surprised if that was max steepness with the same legroom so even if it is further away or higher up, it would still give a sense of what it feels like in relation to the fans around you.

It's not going to be exact of course. Spurs may be more similar but it's not yet an example any of us can use.
 

CJR

Player Valuation: £500k
Does anybody really think prices wont go up for the new stadium? I think you are looking realistically at about a £100 a season increase per person. You can't have it both ways, new stadiums cost money and Moshiri is not going to shoulder it all.
If you want a successful team and a big state of the art stadium it is going to cost you money either way, the ground match day revenue has to go up and for what ever reason 60'000 is not seen as a good idea for the site.
we have cheap prices fro a rubbish facilities and a poor team, if both change the price of you match day ticket will increase considerably.
 

Ralphie Boy

Player Valuation: £5m
Does anybody really think prices wont go up for the new stadium? I think you are looking realistically at about a £100 a season increase per person. You can't have it both ways, new stadiums cost money and Moshiri is not going to shoulder it all.
If you want a successful team and a big state of the art stadium it is going to cost you money either way, the ground match day revenue has to go up and for what ever reason 60'000 is not seen as a good idea for the site.
we have cheap prices fro a rubbish facilities and a poor team, if both change the price of you match day ticket will increase considerably.
Tbh £100 per head would not be asking a great deal considering the prices have remained for so long.

I don’t want to get into a tit for tat argument about who can afford or not as it is a personal thing.

As long as the increase went to offset stadium costs and not to go into the b(w)ankers we have who can’t be bothered putting in a measly 90 minutes per week!!!!!:rant:
 

Baileyjon

Player Valuation: £500k
The thing is, in my opinion, his, (and his boss), see the ground as the key to eye watering profits elsewhere in the whole development.

His calculation will be, again, in my opinion, is it worth me, (and his boss), providing/guaranteeing/sourcing the stadium build versus the returns elsewhere. In other words, IF the stadium is as "Key" to the whole playground as we are told, then the answer is clear. If not, (which I doubt), THEN he will move on.

My opinion. Deffo not sourced. Just join dots.
Liverpool Waters was proposed 12 years ago and will take 50 years to complete. It certainly isn't a get rich quick scheme. The main thing though is that it is Peel and not Everton or Moshiri that will benefit if there is a profit.
 
Liverpool Waters was proposed 12 years ago and will take 50 years to complete. It certainly isn't a get rich quick scheme. The main thing though is that it is Peel and not Everton or Moshiri that will benefit if there is a profit.
Very wrong.

Everton will make money off the back of a prime location which sponsors will love
and
Moshiri will make money off the back of selling the club for a massive profit.
 

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