Moyes holds Everton dream

[Groucho]

I think David moyes is the best manager for us at this present time. People have not agreed with me on this which is fair enough, but I just hope he stays. Please, moyes haters, just see that we're better with him than with some no mark manager. He wants to win stuff HERE WITH US and has said so. Get behind him and the team. We're supporters, right? So let's bloody support.

 

[paulbefc]

You're right.

A counter argument though, purely for the sake of playing Devils' Advocate.

Moyes negative tactics + refusal to drop underachieving OAP's in favour of those really in form/up for it = Poor results.

Poor results = Poor league finish.

No europe because of poor results leading to poor league finish = Better players becoming unarsed.

Poor atmosphere/attendance due to poor results which led to poor league placings = A chore to play at Goodison for players.

It all stems back to the copper headed beaut.

It's a fair point. We've seen questionable tactics and we've seen too much of Neville and Cahill and not enough of Barkley (I am still hesitant as to whether to include Drenthe in that bracket). We've seen poor results. However, we've seen no poor league finishes in the last five years and this year is not over yet.

Where is the huge difference in tactics between 07/08 and now though? It's the same formation. The difference is we had a striker who was belting them in for fun and was in the form of his life, a very good striker in reserve plus the promising Vaughan and Anichebe. We had Pienaar and Baines on the left with the last of the great days of Mikel in the middle and a sensational Lee Carsley in front of a back four with Lescott and Yobo on form (Lescott was banging them in for fun, it's worth mentioning) and an actually decent Phil Neville at right back. Cahill could score then, Osman was having the best year of his career etc etc etc.

We needed to replace the Nevilles and the Osmans and the Artetas as soon as they went off the boil. No clues as to guessing why we didn't. Our squad became a shadow of what it once was as the richer clubs tempted our prized assets away. Yakubus became Beckfords and AJs became Anichebes. Then we were left with the squad that started this season. A few quality players but a skeleton of a good team won't play like a good team for a whole season. I will wait until May to judge Moyes but if he is such a **** manager, how are we getting 7th and 8th place finishes while the 5 or 6 teams immediately below us outspend us. What team would you have put out for the City and Chelsea games? Would they have won? It's a damn fine line against sides like those, tactically. You're not telling me we should still be getting top 6 finishes after the last few years of transfer windows. We should be relegation fodder. Look at Villa.

There was a limit in 08 stopping us getting into the top 4 and there is one stopping us hitting the top 6 now. We are never EVER a top 6 squad. If we were to get even close to Liverpool it'd be a remarkable achievement. Sad to say it as they're no great shakes themselves.

He does some tittish things but based on where we finish year on year, they are, overall, in my opinion working. Add money = instant improvement. Finish below 8th this year and I'll be pissed off, like.

 

[The Equaliser]

It's a fair point. We've seen questionable tactics and we've seen too much of Neville and Cahill and not enough of Barkley (I am still hesitant as to whether to include Drenthe in that bracket). We've seen poor results. However, we've seen no poor league finishes in the last five years and this year is not over yet.

Where is the huge difference in tactics between 07/08 and now though? It's the same formation. The difference is we had a striker who was belting them in for fun and was in the form of his life, a very good striker in reserve plus the promising Vaughan and Anichebe. We had Pienaar and Baines on the left with the last of the great days of Mikel in the middle and a sensational Lee Carsley in front of a back four with Lescott and Yobo on form (Lescott was banging them in for fun, it's worth mentioning) and an actually decent Phil Neville at right back. Cahill could score then, Osman was having the best year of his career etc etc etc.

We needed to replace the Nevilles and the Osmans and the Artetas as soon as they went off the boil. No clues as to guessing why we didn't. Our squad became a shadow of what it once was as the richer clubs tempted our prized assets away. Yakubus became Beckfords and AJs became Anichebes. Then we were left with the squad that started this season. A few quality players but a skeleton of a good team won't play like a good team for a whole season. I will wait until May to judge Moyes but if he is such a **** manager, how are we getting 7th and 8th place finishes while the 5 or 6 teams immediately below us outspend us. What team would you have put out for the City and Chelsea games? Would they have won? It's a damn fine line against sides like those, tactically. You're not telling me we should still be getting top 6 finishes after the last few years of transfer windows. We should be relegation fodder. Look at Villa.

There was a limit in 08 stopping us getting into the top 4 and there is one stopping us hitting the top 6 now. We are never EVER a top 6 squad. If we were to get even close to Liverpool it'd be a remarkable achievement. Sad to say it as they're no great shakes themselves.

He does some tittish things but based on where we finish year on year, they are, overall, in my opinion working. Add money = instant improvement. Finish below 8th this year and I'll be pissed off, like.

...is the overriding concern above everything. Especially with a board as myopic as ours. Unless and until that changes, he'll still be getting my support, along with (I think it's fair to say) most Evertonians.

 

[harry]

Been saying for ages we we needed to replace key players. Which hadn't happened.

They do by bringing one key player back. Lo and behold we get some form again.

Not rocket science. But of course. You'd say its Moyes limitations. "Moyes out" and other nonsense.

One game. Ha, you couldn't make it up.

 

[harry]

Yes. But remember all the ones droning one about actually - BEATING - a team by out playing them?

Thats what I'm referring to.

Wigan pitch was ****e. Everton's pitch allowed the wee fella to play more.

You have out done yourself here. so if we play well its all down to tactics but if we are awfull (which we have been all season) its ths the fault of something else, anything else.

Im not sure if you are serious or a kopite on a wind up. the way try and wind Evertonians up with utter drivel, i am leaning towards the latter.

 

[Christiffa25]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Given the players we lost in the last 12 months and the squad we were left with at the start of the season, what was he supposed to do??

You count on your neville's cahill's and saha's in that predicament. Whatever the individual flaws they have not let us down over the course of a season for many of year.

Neville wasn't performing he was dropped, as was Cahill, as was Saha. Guaye was tried, Barkley a little, Billy, vellios.
Confidence went from the team, the crowd were on there back.. Do you put Barkley back in that?? I wouldn't! Then came injuries to rodwell, ossie, drenthe, vic been injuried all season. He even switched to the 4-4-2 myth which produced the worst ive seen of us! There's more too it than tactics!

The 4-4-1-1 / 4-2-3-1 we play is NOT a defensive formation. Top teams across Europe play it. If your lacking in quality players u become defensive.

Yes Cahill, Neville, Saha, needed replacing but after loosing pienaar, arteta, yak, beckford ect it would of been suicidal to dump them all start of this season.

A few transfers has made a world of difference, moyes chose these players with what limited funds he has to work with. Drenthe, straq, Donovan, pienaar (back) Gibson, jellavic. Where's his credit for that?? And what squad would we have if he had say only 10M available every year

So underrated as manager by many on here.
" The grass isn't always greener"
" be careful what u wish for"
" you don't know what u got till it's gone"

Take ur pick from the above!!
In moyes I trust ( overall)

 

[harry]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Given the players we lost in the last 12 months and the squad we were left with at the start of the season, what was he supposed to do??

You count on your neville's cahill's and saha's in that predicament. Whatever the individual flaws they have not let us down over the course of a season for many of year.

Neville wasn't performing he was dropped, as was Cahill, as was Saha. Guaye was tried, Barkley a little, Billy, vellios.
Confidence went from the team, the crowd were on there back.. Do you put Barkley back in that?? I wouldn't! Then came injuries to rodwell, ossie, drenthe, vic been injuried all season. He even switched to the 4-4-2 myth which produced the worst ive seen of us! There's more too it than tactics!

The 4-4-1-1 / 4-2-3-1 we play is NOT a defensive formation. Top teams across Europe play it. If your lacking in quality players u become defensive.

Yes Cahill, Neville, Saha, needed replacing but after loosing pienaar, arteta, yak, beckford ect it would of been suicidal to dump them all start of this season.

A few transfers has made a world of difference, moyes chose these players with what limited funds he has to work with. Drenthe, straq, Donovan, pienaar (back) Gibson, jellavic. Where's his credit for that?? And what squad would we have if he had say only 10M available every year

So underrated as manager by many on here.
" The grass isn't always greener"
" be careful what u wish for"
" you don't know what u got till it's gone"

Take ur pick from the above!!
In moyes I trust ( overall)

So your calling our squad crap?

I will add to this. My problem with moyes is his prefered style of play. This style has never changed in the ten years with us and with preston before. different factors may have slightly changed our play in the final third, this being players like piennar and arteta but our style has always been, keep it tight at the back and when in possession hit the front man as quickly as possible and try and pick up the second ball or put the ball into space behind the back four for the forward to press and hopefully get a throw in, corner or get possession. This is moyes style and always will be.

I dissagree that you need a team full of superstars to play football using your midfield but obviously it helps. To say the players we had at the start of the season wern't up to playing fooball on the floor is daft.

My biggest problem with moyes is i don't like watching his style of football, forget money and players being sold as i said before this is his prefered style and he would play this way no matter what, if it wasn't it would have changed by now. some people prefer it, i don't. thats why we don't all agree.

 

[Christiffa25]

Not crap as such... But very limited in important areas at the start of the season.

Do you really think moyes was happy with the squad he started the season with?? And more so the squad he was left with September 1st??

 

[harry]

Not crap as such... But very limited in important areas at the start of the season.

Do you really think moyes was happy with the squad he started the season with?? And more so the squad he was left with September 1st??

Ive added above to try and explain my stance.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

I've got that song off," Tangled" in my head now.

 

[Christiffa25]

Well Harry...

I'll have to agree to disagree with you if you think are football has stayed the same over 10yrs.

 

[harry]

Well Harry...

I'll have to agree to disagree with you if you think are football has stayed the same over 10yrs.

As said above different players have added a bit more flare whe we get the ball in the final third but the basic tactic has stayed the same.

 

[Summerskin]

) how are we getting 7th and 8th place finishes while the 5 or 6 teams immediately below us outspend us.

You can spunk millions on Wes Brown, John O'Shea, David Vaughan, Wilson Palacios, Roger Johnson and Scott Dann and they still won't be as good as Distin, Jags, and the likes of Osman.

Regardless of how little we've spent, we still have an incredibly good and talented squad; which is to Moyes' credit for building.

Not knowing how to use it until February and pointing to the billions Chelsea and Man City have every week is not what we know David Moyes for, and that's why a lot of us have seen our arse over him lately.

Bar the odd spunk session (again on the back of the Rooney, Johnson and Lescott sales) every man and his dog has outspent Moyes over the last 10 years, it's nothing new.

 

[Pabbers]

He needs to win something, he wont ever go down as a 'Successfull' manager if he doesn't.

In 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 years time, inside the programme, it will not say "Finished 4th, 5th, 6th,7th on a small budget"

 

[paulbefc]

You can spunk millions on Wes Brown, John O'Shea, David Vaughan, Wilson Palacios, Roger Johnson and Scott Dann and they still won't be as good as Distin, Jags, and the likes of Osman.

Regardless of how little we've spent, we still have an incredibly good and talented squad; which is to Moyes' credit for building.

Not knowing how to use it until February and pointing to the billions Chelsea and Man City have every week is not what we know David Moyes for, and that's why a lot of us have seen our arse over him lately.

Bar the odd spunk session (again on the back of the Rooney, Johnson and Lescott sales) every man and his dog has outspent Moyes over the last 10 years, it's nothing new.

Our squad is absolutely a decent one. We have players that could fit into a top 4 club easy, like Fellaini and Baines. However, as I said, it's a skeleton of a quality team. We finished 7th last year. Look at the squads of the top 6 teams. No comparison. We may be stronger at left back and defensive mid but they have £6-25m players ALL OVER the park. They also have players that would be first on the team sheet here (Pienaar for example) on the bench. Over a season, squad size is what makes the difference. That's why we often beat good teams on the day and finish 20 points behind them at the end of the season. The team can't play like heroes every game. Nor should Moyes be expected to get them to play like that every game.

You say that other teams spunk money on average players. That's so true. And that's almost surely what we'd get if we sacked Moyes. Is there another manager with a record like his? If you look at the 7th placed finish last year and look at our squad compared to, say, Fulham's who have spent more than us every single year but spunked it on over-priced players (AJ a classic example). Our squad was better than theirs. Despite the efforts of many a decent manager down there. Sunderland are the same, Villa too. Testament to our player buying policy. Our squad was superior in quality so we finished above ALL of them. Look into the top 6 and we see strength in depth that makes us look like a pub team. We just can't finish above them without a minor miracle like in 04/05. This suggests Moyes is, in terms of league position if not points total (and what manager can say he maximises points every year), maximising what we can achieve. Did we have the right to finish above Liverpool, for example, last year? If so, then Moyes was a league position below where we should have been. I think not, however.

But yeah, it's an opinion. Liverpool were a bit sh*t last year despite having Suarez, Gerrard and Reina so maybe we should have pipped them given the fact that our squad was feared by many in August but I don't think it's an awful failure. Our squad starting this season was pretty sh*t to be fair and top 10 is a minor achievement. Top 8 would be near enough maximising what we can achieve so I don't see the sense in sacking Moyes. I'm not saying give him manager of the year by any means.