Moyes has failed the test

[Carlito]

As others have said, it's really the failure to put garbage teams to the sword which has cost Everton Europe. There was a period around October/November when they were routinely murdering teams for an hour and then retreating to the edge of their own box, almost inviting the opposition to score.

Fellaini up front has wound me up more than anything though. He and Gibson were fantastic last season, but it's easy to bang balls into his chest so that's what Moyes goes with. The fact Osman is awful half the time makes it even more frustrating.

I do wonder how the club are going to advertise him to potential buyers this summer. How much would you pay for an 11 goal-a-season striker?

 

[ijjysmith]

Who the hell rated this thread 5 stars?!

 

[electricblue]

His driving test ?

 

[Mrk]

I suggested dropping Fellaini back. You followed that with he done what was required and won the ball and distributed it. You followed that with he's not creative but neither is Fellaini. To me that looks a comparison of the two and that we wouldn't have seen much difference whether Fellaini or Neville player the holding role.

I said Neville did what was required of him, which he has, and Fellaini is required to play closer to goal because we lack goalscorers. I wasn't comparing Neville and Fellaini's ability to play centre mid.

Ultimately, Fellaini has been playing further forward because we need him as close to goal as possible because he is our biggest goal threat, he hasn't been playing further forward to accommodate Neville.

 

[turner]

To put it bluntly, the test that Moyes has failed, again, is to win anything this season. I appreciate we're bringing a butter knife into a gunfight/ thermonuclear war, but how long do we give it before we say it's not good enough?

 

[Ihaters]

To put it bluntly, the test that Moyes has failed, again, is to win anything this season. I appreciate we're bringing a butter knife into a gunfight/ thermonuclear war, but how long do we give it before we say it's not good enough?

Until he gets some backing and still fails?
At the moment he's doing better than anyone else even close to his restrictions, this believe it or not is actually a good thing.

 

[Ihaters]

Who the hell rated this thread 5 stars?!

Its way better than any of the other 20 Moyes is c**p because.. threads though

 

[Allezfan]

Until he gets some backing and still fails?
At the moment he's doing better than anyone else even close to his restrictions, this believe it or not is actually a good thing.

Well, Laudrup aside.

Anyway the comparison thing is dodgy because no other club of our stature spends so little and no other manager has been given so much time. There really isn't anyone else in the same situation.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Moyes hasn't failed any test.Mr Kenwright has failed the test by not signing the cheques for squad reinforcements in January!

 

[Ihaters]

Well, Laudrup aside.

Anyway the comparison thing is dodgy because no other club of our stature spends so little and no other manager has been given so much time. There really isn't anyone else in the same situation.

If every year the goal posts move further away, why should it be easier for Moyes now than back then? Don't get the time argument at all if I'm honest.

 

[Allezfan]

If every year the goal posts move further away, why should it be easier for Moyes now than back then? Don't get the time argument at all if I'm honest.

In another thread I basically compared Allardyce at bolton and Moyes at everton in 2001-02 to 2006-07. Moyes spent 1/3 more money but it was comparable amounts and they finished in about the same positions (average 9th place for both of them, though Moyes did slightly better).

And then Allardyce left and struggled in other clubs where the fans turned on him and he couldn't get players to buy into his system where as moyes has if anything got better and made us much more consistent.

You could argue that's simply class telling (and that once Moyes cleared out smith's side and built his own he was always going to pull away) but for me Moyes was in a better position to push on simply because he hadn't changed clubs. Because every player at the club was bought in by moyes, every member of the backroom staff was bought in moyes, every penny spent was approved by moyes, every wage negotiation Moyes would be consulted. He doesn't have to prove himself to anyone, he doesn't have to make players buy into him, they're his players. And there aren't players who the previous manager has spent money on and put on a big wage who moyes doesn't fancy. Every penny we spend goes on a player Moyes wants.

The fact is overachieving in the Pl is a lot easier than it should be because so many clubs are so badly run, see sunderland or Newcastle or villa or the RS. All of whom have expensive players on big money who the current manager doesn't want (Hi Bent, Hi Carroll.) We don't have that which is partly why we get value for money.

 

[njligernj]

You are right in that the board have to answer for the lack of investment and failure to come up with funds to buy players. However, despite the fact that it is so obvious to everyone (fans, press, the GOT forum etc) that our biggest problem is a lack of firepower and lack of a proven goalscorer, why was Moyes arseing around looking at midfielders like Fer in January. Injured or not and whether or not we even had the money to buy him is irrelevant....the fact is that strikers need to be our priority. What did we end up with in January....another young defender who has not added anything whatsoever to our push for Europe. Another wasted chance.

If you have 1000 pounds which took you two years to save up you might spend a lot of time researching and "dithering" over your car purchase. However if that same person goes on to invent Google then a few years later they might see a Veyron in a rap video and say "get me one" with no further research. Same person behaving in two vastly different (but fairly logical) ways due to different circumstances.

If we ignore the fact we couldn't afford Fer so we couldn't afford a striker we still have a problem: forcing a buy because you need a certain position is a very quick way for a financially limited club to find itself in serious trouble. When teams pay wildly over the odds for a player a lot of the time its because they need that position and that person is the best available (at least in their opinion). The selling team knows their need and jacks up the price. You pay too much and you are stuck upside down on a player. See the RS for a few recent examples. Sadly they can afford to waste tens of millions ... we can't.

Moyes knows we need a striker. He also knows if we somehow find 10m for a halfway decent one that he can't get it wrong because we can't afford to flush that amount of money down an Andy Carroll shaped toilet. Even if the board provided the money (which they did not) there is no point panic buying in Jan.

Of course we need a striker but sadly we have to do it the Everton way which, given our board, means intense research and careful and cautious planning that drives the fans crazy and takes ages.

 

[Ihaters]

In another thread I basically compared Allardyce at bolton and Moyes at everton in 2001-02 to 2006-07. Moyes spent 1/3 more money but it was comparable amounts and they finished in about the same positions (average 9th place for both of them, though Moyes did slightly better).

And then Allardyce left and struggled in other clubs where the fans turned on him and he couldn't get players to buy into his system where as moyes has if anything got better and made us much more consistent.

You could argue that's simply class telling (and that once Moyes cleared out smith's side and built his own he was always going to pull away) but for me Moyes was in a better position to push on simply because he hadn't changed clubs. Because every player at the club was bought in by moyes, every member of the backroom staff was bought in moyes, every penny spent was approved by moyes, every wage negotiation Moyes would be consulted. He doesn't have to prove himself to anyone, he doesn't have to make players buy into him, they're his players. And there aren't players who the previous manager has spent money on and put on a big wage who moyes doesn't fancy. Every penny we spend goes on a player Moyes wants.

The fact is overachieving in the Pl is a lot easier than it should be because so many clubs are so badly run, see sunderland or Newcastle or villa or the RS. All of whom have expensive players on big money who the current manager doesn't want (Hi Bent, Hi Carroll.) We don't have that which is partly why we get value for money.

True to a point but when Moyes inherited a relegation battling side, one season apart he turned us around without having his own players, in fact losing our best player. We were doing well under him long before he had fully replaced the personnel, and that he now has the players he can afford doesn't mean he should be doing better positionally in the league than when he took over though.

The reasoning behind this is simple.... Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, United and Arsenal have consumed vast sums of money.. Moyes has sold some players to pretty much break even. Surely once that plateau has been reached where he has his own team that he spent 5 quid on, every season there onwards is harder..

Selling Arteta for 10mil and buying Mirallas for 8 is not quite the same as just wanting Hazard so we'll get him, I fancy having Dzeko at our club.. and Aguerro. That is a year gone, next year... sell Baines, get two players that are his whilst Messi joins United under Klopp or whatever.. How should that extra year in charge mean we should be the ones that improve most there?

Bale is good, lets spend whatever he wants to keep him say Spurs. Rooney and RVP v Anichebe and Jelavic.. Whilst these are Moyes own players, it doesn't come close to making up the gap produces by the finances of others.

Being at a club for another year with no money and the expectation to improve, is not even close to being as easy as being at a club for a year with an extra 50mil to spend on a quality squad.