Moyes and youth

[billycopper]

Davey bangs on about how Everton is the best place for young lads to get a game, but I'm very disappointed with how he's treating some of our young lads at the moment.

Vellios- Fair enough that he's not up to leading the line by himself at the moment, but why not put him alongside Saha or Cahill and let him learn from them? We're desperately short of any sort of firepower, so Moyes preferring 4 players ahead of him (Saha, Cahill, Straq and McAleney), who have a lower combined goal tally than he has individually this season absolutely baffles me.

Barkley- He was really bright at the start of the season and is showing good form captaining and scoring in the youth side. It would have been just reward for his loyalty and hard work to give him some game time at home to Norwich.

Gueye- Before last weekend's fixture he had played just 27 minutes of Premier League football this year. He's been brought on 3 times with less than 10 minutes to go. I know he's had his injuries but last season he played the equivalent of less than two and a half matches. Young players learn experientially. If he's not playing, he's not learning.

McAleney- The current flavour of the month. Does it really help his development though to makes his debut at the Emirates and then to be sent on to try and secure vital points against Norwich? Surely that is a huge amount of pressure to place on young shoulders and goes against Moyes's usual careful approach?

Forshaw- Thrown on against Wolves for his debut at the tail end of last season and never seen again. Was Moyes testing whether he could handle the pressure? As I seem to remember he did fine. The lad is bound to think that he wasn't up to scratch though. Unless the manager is going to integrate players into the side gradually, what is the point in giving them brief appearances?

Baxter- He looked quite promising against Bolton in February last year, but Moyes hasn't used him again. He's doing fairly well on loan to Tranmere, but will it count for anything?

Coleman- He'll be glad of a game at the moment but there must surely be some plan of how we will eventually develop him as a rightback. Will he be used at all during Donovan's loan spell?

I could go on and on. We're short at left back and centreback, but we haven't seen any move to bring Garbutt and Duffy into the squad to understudy Baines and Distin. What exactly is happening with Silva?

Look at Liverpool. They have trusted in Wilson, Kelly, Flanagan, Spearing and Shelvey when they could easily have gone out and bought internationals. Are their kids any better than ours? I don't believe they are. I'm not saying that Moyes should start with our young players, but he needs to phase them into the side and allow them to learn through their mistakes. I know that both Vaughan and Jutkiewicz were out of Moyes' plans, but they said that they had no contact with Finch Farm during their loan spells and they didn't know whether they were being sent away for experience or to find another club. I hope that the same isn't true of the young crop that we've recently sent out. You can't imagine Alex Ferguson behaving like that. Even if a young player is unlikely to make the grade he still takes the time to follow their progress and offer encouragement. It's a lesson that Moyes would do well to learn from his mentor.

 

[RFUS]

I said the same over a year ago. Nothing's changed.

Nothing will.

This is David Moyes.


It's gotten to the point where I have to hope players like Cahill and Neville get injured so he's forced into change, and maybe giving younger players a chance. Wishing an injury upon your own player isn't something I'm proud of, but it's the only way things ever change.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Moyes doesn't like youngsters.

I have had this from players at the club, I'm not an ITK. It's a fact I've heard it from one ex and one current.

 

[RFUS]

Moyes doesn't like youngsters.

I have had this from players at the club, I'm not an ITK. It's a fact I've heard it from one ex and one current.

It makes sense when you think about it. I can't think of many managers that impose their own style and footballing beliefs on players as much as Moyes.

Sometimes this is a good thing (i.e. the work ethic and defensive abilities Pienaar and Arteta developed) and sometimes it's a bad thing (every single striker under his watch being utterly gash as they're told to focus on running the channels more than actually getting the ball in the net).

Young players are wildcards and he hasn't had enough time to make his mark on them, so to speak. They're more ill-disciplined, in terms defensive responsibilities, and therefore not as 'safe'.

However when you're as predictable as Everton then you surely need a bit of spontaneity? I think we'd all agree we need a player with that spark more than we need another workhorse.

 

[Happy Nick]

Well, he played Gosling and Rodwell against Manchester utd and Chelsea, just the one example I can be bothered to mention. The point I would like to make is that he will use youth but he really will not use them if the team are in a rut. When the chips are down and there is gloom around Goodison Moyes puts the pressure firmly on the senior players shoulders. I think he is right to do so. These are young boys who look all grown up but they are not. Have a look outside at some 17-21 year olds, you will probably think they look pretty immature and they need to grow up a bit. We forget that with young footballers because there bodies have developed somewhat.

I agree that players like Cahill and Neville need to be phased out and that we have some great youngsters to replace them. Many people on here say Moyes ruins a young players confidence by droping them (part and parcel of fooyball) yet do people not think that the horrendous noise that follows a misplaced pass will not destroy confidence?

 

[RFUS]

Well, he played Gosling and Rodwell against Manchester utd and Chelsea, just the one example I can be bothered to mention. The point I would like to make is that he will use youth but he really will not use them if the team are in a rut. When the chips are down and there is gloom around Goodison Moyes puts the pressure firmly on the senior players shoulders. I think he is right to do so. These are young boys who look all grown up but they are not. Have a look outside at some 17-21 year olds, you will probably think they look pretty immature and they need to grow up a bit. We forget that with young footballers because there bodies have developed somewhat.

I agree that players like Cahill and Neville need to be phased out and that we have some great youngsters to replace them. Many people on here say Moyes ruins a young players confidence by droping them (part and parcel of fooyball) yet do people not think that the horrendous noise that follows a misplaced pass will not destroy confidence?

We were decimated with injuries when Gosling and Rodwell got all those games back then. That's my point -- Moyes only really gives youth a chance when injuries force his hand.

As for your second point I do see what you're saying, but I think the Goodison crowd at least love youth and are understanding. I remember Barkley spraying a shot wide but still getting a load of applause for the effort. I highly doubt the crowd would get on their back in the same way they get on Bily's (unfairly, mind) for example. But it's speculative I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

I think foxy has mentioned the Rodwell thing, he doesn't know his best position.

 

[Happy Nick]

And were there injuries that were forcing him to play Anichebe? The silly thing about this argument (on both sides) is that playing youth youth should not and never be an issue. It should be playing talent.

With regard Barkley getting the treatment and other young talents, they very rarely get booed for having a shot but the mis placed passes ect they do.

Personally I'm really pleased Moyes put Vellios back in the reserves if he thought another player had earnt the right to be in the team more.

 

[Bigmaclad]

I've never believed all that crap about youth getting a great chance at Everton anyway. Especially when Moyes is about, he only plays youth when he has to.

 

[Tubey]

And were there injuries that were forcing him to play Anichebe? The silly thing about this argument (on both sides) is that playing youth youth should not and never be an issue. It should be playing talent.

With regard Barkley getting the treatment and other young talents, they very rarely get booed for having a shot but the mis placed passes ect they do.

Personally I'm really pleased Moyes put Vellios back in the reserves if he thought another player had earnt the right to be in the team more.

I've never seen a player who has broken into the first team from the youth squad booed once for a misplace pass until they've been in and around the squad for like two or three years. Not one. No idea where you get that impression from! Barkley has had a few go astray but the general reaction of the crowd was "oh well, at least the kid is trying something, unlucky Ross" kind of thing.

 

[RFUS]

And were there injuries that were forcing him to play Anichebe? The silly thing about this argument (on both sides) is that playing youth youth should not and never be an issue. It should be playing talent.

With regard Barkley getting the treatment and other young talents, they very rarely get booed for having a shot but the mis placed passes ect they do.

Personally I'm really pleased Moyes put Vellios back in the reserves if he thought another player had earnt the right to be in the team more.

No you're quite right. We shouldn't play players because they're young, but because they're good enough.

But at the moment Phil Neville and Tim Cahill are not good enough, and yet they continue to play.

Because of that I can only conclude Moyes isn't picking players based on their quality, but on their age/experience.

 

[slimspek]

I think Moyes is doing alright, could do better by dropping Cahill. I think our youth are getting chances 'cause our squad is so threadbare when we have one injury a spot opens up for them right away. He started Gueye over Bily so that is an improvement on Moyes' part. Also a couple weeks ago, I can't remember which game, Coleman was moved to right back after Hibbert was taken off and remained there for the rest of the match (like 20 mins). It's a small improvement but it shows Moyes is making progress with the youth, albeit incredibly slow but progress none the less.

 

[bluesb1970]

We were decimated with injuries when Gosling and Rodwell got all those games back then. That's my point -- Moyes only really gives youth a chance when injuries force his hand.

As for your second point I do see what you're saying, but I think the Goodison crowd at least love youth and are understanding. I remember Barkley spraying a shot wide but still getting a load of applause for the effort. I highly doubt the crowd would get on their back in the same way they get on Bily's (unfairly, mind) for example. But it's speculative I suppose.

moyes only makes any changes when he is forced to. Down the years its been the only time he has moved players to their preferred positions and prospered. Ie, Jagielka, Heitinga, Arteta, Baines, Lescott etc.

 

[RFUS]

moyes only makes any changes when he is forced to. Down the years its been the only time he has moved players to their preferred positions and prospered. Ie, Jagielka, Heitinga, Arteta, Baines, Lescott etc.

He's reactive, not proactive, and for one of the most highly paid managers in the world I don't think that's good enough.

 

[Matt Damon]

I said the same over a year ago. Nothing's changed.

Nothing will.

This is David Moyes.


It's gotten to the point where I have to hope players like Cahill and Neville get injured so he's forced into change, and maybe giving younger players a chance. Wishing an injury upon your own player isn't something I'm proud of, but it's the only way things ever change.

Knew you'd be the second one whining on this thread. Knew it.

Surprised you haven't thrown out a:

OWEN COYLE IN FFS