Last night of the Proms

[Fensta]

Me dad was watching it, he loves all that stuff. Personally it's too over the top with the national pride stuff, also the people who attend are annoyingly poncey colonial types who fondly remember the good old days when england ruled the world. Times have moved on, so should they.

 

[davek]

Land of Hope and Glory, Rule Britannia, You'll Never Walk Alone...did they do the full fascist medley and add the Horst Wessel Lied this year?

 

[Elong]

Here he is

 

[The Esk]

Land of Hope and Glory, Rule Britannia, You'll Never Walk Alone...did they do the full fascist medley and add the Horst Wessel Lied this year?

The dirge aside, its all enjoyable stuff in terms of its music, performance quality and heritage. Nothing wrong in that in my opinion. There's also nothing wrong with a bit of pride in one's own Nation - why should that be the reserve and privilege of the right?

Not liking the Proms because of the musical connection with an Imperial past is a bit like saying I don't like, enjoy or use any of the major historical buildings in Liverpool because they were built on the proceeds of the slave trade!

 

[davek]

The dirge aside, its all enjoyable stuff in terms of its music, performance quality and heritage. Nothing wrong in that in my opinion. There's also nothing wrong with a bit of pride in one's own Nation - why should that be the reserve and privilege of the right?

Not liking the Proms because of the musical connection with an Imperial past is a bit like saying I don't like, enjoy or use any of the major historical buildings in Liverpool because they were built on the proceeds of the slave trade!

It's jingoistic tosh. It's appeal is to those harking back to a period when Britain was the Imperial power and the country itself was homogenous not multi-racial.

The lumpen patriots of the EDL had their day out in the east end of London yesterday; the middle class patriots had their's in the west end last night.

 

[The Esk]

It's jingoistic tosh. It's appeal is to those harking back to a period when Britain was the Imperial power and the country itself was homogenous not multi-racial.

The lumpen patriots of the EDL had their day out in the east end of London yesterday; the middle class patriots had their's in the west end last night.

It has a much wider appeal than that Dave - do you think Hyde Park was just full of middle class patriots?

I tell you, if my Granddad was alive today I would take him to the Royal Albert Hall and he would have been the proudest Englishman in the audience. This was a man who worked at Cammel Lairds all his life, used to walk to the bus stop on West Derby Road in his bare feet to save on the shoe leather, and was a Labour Party member for many years.

He loved his country, loved his City for all their achievements through history. Yes, he was mindful of the exploitation of labour and resources to build the Empire- didn't make him any less proud of his heritage.

 

[Whitebootman]

I used to watch this with my mum and loved it. I have not watched it in years as we are usually away on holiday at this time of the year. I like the idea of new music alongside a traditional finale. Actually went to a 'last night' once, years ago and enjoyed it. I'd like to do a full season one year when work won't clash with the program.

 

[davek]

It has a much wider appeal than that Dave - do you think Hyde Park was just full of middle class patriots?

I tell you, if my Granddad was alive today I would take him to the Royal Albert Hall and he would have been the proudest Englishman in the audience. This was a man who worked at Cammel Lairds all his life, used to walk to the bus stop on West Derby Road in his bare feet to save on the shoe leather, and was a Labour Party member for many years.

He loved his country, loved his City for all their achievements through history. Yes, he was mindful of the exploitation of labour and resources to build the Empire- didn't make him any less proud of his heritage.

There is that tradition (or was) amongst ordinary people, something the 'Blue Labour'/'Compass' lot have been trying to tap into (or channel) for political gain...basically because they fear losing contact with a working class strident in its racism again.

I dont think you can have patriotism for this country without the baggage that goes with it. Your grandfather would have been pummeled at school with stories of British civilization and values going hand in hand with the colonialism, and seen the flag and country etc as a progressive force. It wasn't. It was a hugely punishing war machine that pulverized opposition to dust and helped spread a virus called global capitalism.

 

[Coach]

What should we do instead davek?

Put a hair shirt on and self flaggelate?

Burn all Union Jacks and have a vote to design a new corporate logo like Everton?

Have an X-factor special to pick new national anthem?

 

[davek]

What should we do instead davek?

Put a hair shirt on and self flaggelate?

Burn all Union Jacks and have a vote to design a new corporate logo like Everton?

Have an X-factor special to pick new national anthem?

I'm offering no advice mate, just an opinion.

 

[The Esk]

There is that tradition (or was) amongst ordinary people, something the 'Blue Labour'/'Compass' lot have been trying to tap into (or channel) for political gain...basically because they fear losing contact with a working class strident in its racism again.

I dont think you can have patriotism for this country without the baggage that goes with it. Your grandfather would have been pummeled at school with stories of British civilization and values going hand in hand with the colonialism, and seen the flag and country etc as a progressive force. It wasn't. It was a hugely punishing war machine that pulverized opposition to dust and helped spread a virus called global capitalism.

Or perhaps he will have seen his brothers, Uncles, friends, neighbours and work mates lay down their lives in two world wars for a greater good (particularly in the WWII) and be proud of our contribution to keeping the most evil tyrannies at bay.

 

[davek]

Or perhaps he will have seen his brothers, Uncles, friends, neighbours and work mates lay down their lives in two world wars for a greater good (particularly in the WWII) and be proud of our contribution to keeping the most evil tyrannies at bay.

The Second World War was an existential threat; no sense in even contemplating truckling to that. Not much to do with seeing off evil threats (the British ruling class would happily have thrown in with Nazi Germany - as many did ideologically - but it wasn't an option).

There are many things about Britishness that should be celebrated (contributions to art, industry, science) but I doubt they were uppermost in the minds of the flag waving war groupies and general hankerers after a white Britain at the RHA last night!