Joey Barton

[davek]

true enough, we love that stereotype of ourselves, I remember reading a willie miesl book 'soccer revolution', it was written in the 50's and he touches a lot on english attitudes, and mentions things like the coaches refusal to look at how cold weather can affect a player and how the players will wear short sleeves in the coldest weather, talking about the benefits of keeping the players warm and getting a better performance out of them. Over 60 years later we have neil lennon banning warm hats from training sessions, just incredible levels of ignorance to perpetuate this 'tough' image, our game is infested with backward thinking dinosaurs, and to be honest the majority of fans are just as guilty.

Yep. For all the advances made in the PL years there's a stubborn hanging onto old prejudices. We witnessed it at Everton with the changeover from Moyes to Martinez. Many were concerned that a more technical game would be our undoing...and were merciless in their criticism in the early part of last season of Martinez before we clicked.

I've been arguing McGeady's case on here of late. He's not a world beater, obviously. But there's an impatience with his progress that is born of the Moyes years when intolerance with mistakes was punished severely by him.

 

[kenada_blue]

Yeah, he's obviously a bit naive in places (I dont think, for example, that English elite football ignores other sporting excellence/input as he clams) but the stuff on English preparation for matches has a ring of truth about it, as does his points on Gary Neville and coaching.

Have to defend Neville to be fair. He's just starting out and the buck stops with Hodgeson. Add the fact that the talent pool in England is average and mentally weak, he can only do so much.

As for Barton, until he's actually coaching I don't think his opinion is worth much. He can point out the problems as he's seen it from the inside, but until he's actually trying to improve coaching himself he's just another mouth piece.

And I doubt he will go into coaching. He doesn't have the temperament and he likes his voice too much. Hell be punditing like everyone else.

 

[davek]

Have to defend Neville to be fair. He's just starting out and the buck stops with Hodgeson. Add the fact that the talent pool in England is average and mentally weak, he can only do so much.

As for Barton, until he's actually coaching I don't think his opinion is worth much. He can point out the problems as he's seen it from the inside, but until he's actually trying to improve coaching himself he's just another mouth piece.

And I doubt he will go into coaching. He doesn't have the temperament and he likes his voice too much. Hell be punditing like everyone else.

That's fair enough. Barton needs to put his money where his mouth is now and keep his studying and coaching education up.

I think what he says about Neville though is a broader one beyond Neville: that elite ex-players are brought in as the expert voices on the game when experience tells us that many figures within the game who haven't been involved at an elite level - or any sort of decent level -have come into coaching/management and been the most innovative.

 

[kenada_blue]

That's fair enough. Barton needs to put his money where his mouth is now and keep his studying and coaching education up.

I think what he says about Neville though is a broader one beyond Neville: that elite ex-players are brought in as the expert voices on the game when experience tells us that many figures within the game who haven't been involved at an elite level - or any sort of decent level -have come into coaching/management and been the most innovative.

True. But we don't have that here in the UK. Never have.

Also, its getting less and less more like that abroad. All the new managers in Spain, Italy etc are ex players.

The likes of your Mourinho's etc are rare breads. And you've gotta give a lot of credit to an ex player come manager in Sir Bobby Robson for taking a punt on people like that.

 

[davek]

True. But we don't have that here in the UK. Never have.

Also, its getting less and less more like that abroad. All the new managers in Spain, Italy etc are ex players.

The likes of your Mourinho's etc are rare breads. And you've gotta give a lot of credit to an ex player come manager in Sir Bobby Robson for taking a punt on people like that.

Maybe, but Barton was talking about coaching rather than managerial roles. Someone like Paul Clement Chelsea/Madrid assistant coach is a good example of what's possible. But yeah, it's still a cliquey industry.