If there was still a Foreigner Rule?

[Sim]

The question was directed at Sim, but I'd say no. Wenger, and indeed any manager, has an obligation to make their club the best it can be, they have no obligation to produce players for the national team.

I fully agree with this. Forcing teams to play english born players is not going to make the english game any better, you'll just have more mediocre players at the top level. If British players arnt succeeding at home or abroad then their simply not good enough. And if some say its a case of the money, and the most money is in england for example, then the best should play in england and the british players should make their way around europe and fit in at their level.

Simply, its not about nationality, but the best being able to succeed, and obviousuly being financially rewarded for it too.

 

[roolaing]

Allowing teams to field player from any country should allow the best of each country to come through, regardless if that ends up being in their own country. I'm completely against having a mandatory number of "home" players in a team, I think its fair and competitive to simply find the best players that you can buy....

I say the same as Bruce, sort out the academies to improve english/british youngsters rather than limiting non-british players, that simply wouldnt be good for the game.

Not sure If I buy this, although I realise I'm well in the minority. If you look at the competitiveness of the British Leagues over the last 15-20 years, money/tv rights/big name foreign players have been at the crux of every decision made governing the game and have resulted in 4 teams going to win the league south of the border and 2 teams north of it. That is boring! I ask sincerely, have our sides really achieved more in European competition recently than they did in the 60s,70s,80s or even early 90s where a foreigner rule WAS in place? ALSO, and most importantly, our national team standards have fallen so much in this period. Look at England who should be but are nowhere near the threat they were in 86, 90 or even 96. Again, time periods where predominantly British clubs played British players, with the odd exceptional non-Brit in the side. Academies were not the answer when (hate to say it) Liverpool dominated Europe!

To bring back the point, I believe Everton would be a title challenging side and European cup challenging side under a foreigner ruling.

This isn't so daft as in the 80s Villa, Liverpool and Notts Forest won the European cup, Aberdeen won the cup winners cup and super cup and DUNDEE UNITED got to the final of the Uefa Cup! (Beating a star studded Gary Lineker featuring Barcelona side convincingly home and away I might add). Also, all the home nations were more of a threat at International level.


I'm rambling now... but you get the point.

 

[SuitsBlue]

affluenza

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not sure If I buy this, although I realise I'm well in the minority. If you look at the competitiveness of the British Leagues over the last 15-20 years, money/tv rights/big name foreign players have been at the crux of every decision made governing the game and have resulted in 4 teams going to win the league south of the border and 2 teams north of it. That is boring! I ask sincerely, have our sides really achieved more in European competition recently than they did in the 60s,70s,80s or even early 90s where a foreigner rule WAS in place? ALSO, and most importantly, our national team standards have fallen so much in this period. Look at England who should be but are nowhere near the threat they were in 86, 90 or even 96. Again, time periods where predominantly British clubs played British players, with the odd exceptional non-Brit in the side. Academies were not the answer when (hate to say it) Liverpool dominated Europe!

To bring back the point, I believe Everton would be a title challenging side and European cup challenging side under a foreigner ruling.

This isn't so daft as in the 80s Villa, Liverpool and Notts Forest won the European cup, Aberdeen won the cup winners cup and super cup and DUNDEE UNITED got to the final of the Uefa Cup! (Beating a star studded Gary Lineker featuring Barcelona side convincingly home and away I might add). Also, all the home nations were more of a threat at International level.


I'm rambling now... but you get the point.

Far be it from me to throw a spanner in the works (but I'm going to anyway). It's quite probable that the top four are the top four, and have been the top four for donkey's years, not because they have a lot of foreign players but because they have lots (and lots) of money. So even if foreign players were limited wouldn't they simply use that big swimming pool full of money to buy the best English players instead?

With our decent number of English players it's obviously nice for us to dream of such a scenario as a way back to the upper echelons of the game, but how many of our players would be lured away by £100,000 a week salaries if it were offered them?

Oh dear, that sounds a bit gloomy doesn't it. On the plus side though, we'd still have Hibbo

 

[Sim]

Not sure If I buy this, although I realise I'm well in the minority. If you look at the competitiveness of the British Leagues over the last 15-20 years, money/tv rights/big name foreign players have been at the crux of every decision made governing the game and have resulted in 4 teams going to win the league south of the border and 2 teams north of it. That is boring! I ask sincerely, have our sides really achieved more in European competition recently than they did in the 60s,70s,80s or even early 90s where a foreigner rule WAS in place? ALSO, and most importantly, our national team standards have fallen so much in this period. Look at England who should be but are nowhere near the threat they were in 86, 90 or even 96. Again, time periods where predominantly British clubs played British players, with the odd exceptional non-Brit in the side. Academies were not the answer when (hate to say it) Liverpool dominated Europe!

To bring back the point, I believe Everton would be a title challenging side and European cup challenging side under a foreigner ruling.

This isn't so daft as in the 80s Villa, Liverpool and Notts Forest won the European cup, Aberdeen won the cup winners cup and super cup and DUNDEE UNITED got to the final of the Uefa Cup! (Beating a star studded Gary Lineker featuring Barcelona side convincingly home and away I might add). Also, all the home nations were more of a threat at International level.


I'm rambling now... but you get the point.

I dont like this current situation anymore than you sound like you do, with the uncompetitvness of the game, and elite divisions being created in each country, but this has occurred since the massive amount of cash that has plunged into the champions league and not the foreigner rules being relaxed.

The current situation is to do with money being given back to money therefore making it more difficult each passing year to enter this "elite" super rich mini league.

 

[SuitsBlue]

what is a little odd is that although the french league isnt by any means the most affluent they churn out quality players every season.

looking at the former richest league, serie A, although some of the prestige and money and top wages have now transfered to the PL the italian sides still keep hold of their stars and most importantly their best home produced players.

hunger and desire a footballer make, in some places its far to easy to sit on your arse and dream on.

 

[BlueFG]

I dont like this current situation anymore than you sound like you do, with the uncompetitvness of the game, and elite divisions being created in each country, but this has occurred since the massive amount of cash that has plunged into the champions league and not the foreigner rules being relaxed.

The current situation is to do with money being given back to money therefore making it more difficult each passing year to enter this "elite" super rich mini league.

Agreed, so if the problem is money then would a wage/spending cap be the answer? I personally think it would, although it would have to be implemented by FIFA, or at least UEFA to work.

Do I think it'll ever happen? Nope!

Football would have to get itself into a pretty big mess financially before changes are made to the current structure of the game, which makes so much money for so many at the top.

 

[SuitsBlue]

a huge part of the money is the foreign tv and advertising rights. is this season the first where so many games are live in the US and aus?

i'd very much like to know what the deal in china and india is amongst others.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This could be why the French produce so many fine players

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairefontaine
http://www.fff.fr/presentationfff/ctnfs/1028.shtml is the official page but it's in French and I can't see an English translation anywhere. They have an interesting video tour though.

Clairefontaine is one of nine elite football academies in France, the grounds cover 66,000 square metres, it’s got training grounds, a stadium pitch and an indoor pitch, along with a gym, a restaurant etc. The worst thing about it though is that it has been there for 19 years. That's how far we are behind and we'll probably be further behind due to the decision to scrap our own such academy in favour of Wembley.

It is not just skills that are taught (and there are plenty of those), but mentalities and attitudes. I found quotes such as “victory is the only goal”; how many times have we been crying out for the England team to have this sort of mentality?

 

[Dylan]

Babelfish provides a really good translation of that site.

 

[BlueFG]

This could be why the French produce so many fine players

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairefontaine
http://www.fff.fr/presentationfff/ctnfs/1028.shtml is the official page but it's in French and I can't see an English translation anywhere. They have an interesting video tour though.

Note of interest is that all the top players produced by Clairefontaine have African backgrounds. Could just be that the mixture of French flair with the pace and power of the Africans has been a perfect one. Even ZZ was of Algerian decent.

 

[Sim]

I think with our players there is just a different mindset, a very big cultural difference straight from the start. When I was a kid, we played a lot of "3 goals and in" and that teaches you strength and stamina, but in countries such as spain and italy you see kids on the streets playing more games with the ball, things like keeping the ball in the air etc. This teaches them more ball control and technique.

But kids growing up watching the premiership and seeing players like Arteta for example, are going to try and emulate him, so if anything I think the more skillful foreigners that play in the premiership will only improve the british kids rather than force them out of football.