How the rest performed against the "big four"

The Esk · May 5, 2008

Still fuming after yesterdays impotent performance I've drawn up how the rest of the Premiership have performed against the so called "big four".

Obviously the table is not complete with one round of matches still to go,but interesting none the less:

7 points
Manchester City

6 points
Aston Villa
West Ham
Middlesborough

4 points
Portsmouth
Reading
Birmingham

3 points
Blackburn
Spurs
Wigan
Bolton

1 point
Everton
Newcastle
Fulham

0 points
Sunderland
Derby

Stating the obvious, our inability to compete against the "big four" is giving our immediate competitors for UEFA spots a considerable advantage.

Discuss :unsure:

kenada_blue · May 5, 2008

Dont care really - we're 5th and every team would give their left nut to be in our position.

Last year we beat and drew with the RS and Arsenal, Drew with Chelsea, and finished 6 with 58 points.

This year where (so far) 5th with 62 points and we only drew with Chelsea away.

Minus the Arsenal game at Goodison (where we played brilliantly in the 1st half) the games against the sky 4 have been tense and close encounters where we werent embarrassed as was the case with Manure last season (3-0 away, 4-2 at home) for eg.

A full stength squad with quality in depth and I dont see why we cant get results against them next season. We could've rolled over and died agasint them this season but we didnt and its more frustraing that we could've got something out of the those games. But it didnt happen. Lets move on and improve and see where we went wrong.

Bruce Wayne · May 5, 2008

Of course it's not ideal but a season is played over 38 games, not 8. We did well against the top four last season.

davek · May 5, 2008

It is very strange...we were beating these teams on ocassion up to this season. We're constantly told we have, compared with a few seasons back, a strong squad, and that we're playing better football. Well, I honestly dont see how that is the case after the past 6 weeks. Have we progressed all told? Yes. Significantly? No.

Bruce Wayne · May 5, 2008

davek said:
It is very strange...we were beating these teams on ocassion up to this season. We're constantly told we have, compared with a few seasons back, a strong squad, and that we're playing better football. Well, I honestly dont see how that is the case after the past 6 weeks. Have we progressed all told? Yes. Significantly? No.

Why don't you take a look at all the teams that have played in the UEFA cup in the past few seasons and see how they did in the league that same season. I dare say we head that particular table.

caught · May 5, 2008

Why is this either a surprise or a problem? We've been beaten by CL sides who spend a great deal more money on players than we do and are, it's fair to say, better quality teams than us. Consequently, our poor results against the top four are offset by our generally excellent results against the rest of the league.

To summarize: we lose to teams better than us (albeit pushing them hard on occasion) whilst beating the majority of teams around us. We're the fifth best team in the country. Everything is as it should be for now.

davek · May 5, 2008

Bruce Wayne said:
Why don't you take a look at all the teams that have played in the UEFA cup in the past few seasons and see how they did in the league that same season. I dare say we head that particular table.

No, Spurs got two rounds further last season and came 5th.

We fell away alarmingly. We had a shot at 4th, but we haven't got the strength in depth that could see us through. The manager needs money to build a squad with depth of quality.

Bruce Wayne · May 5, 2008

davek said:
No, Spurs got two rounds further last season and came 5th.

We fell away alarmingly. We had a shot at 4th, but we haven't got the strength in depth that could see us through. The manager needs money to build a squad with depth of quality.

Spurs, who've spent as much as any other team in the league in recent seasons. Who else?

davek · May 5, 2008

Bruce Wayne said:
Spurs, who've spent as much as any other team in the league in recent seasons. Who else?

Why does there have to be anyone else? You asked, I told you.

We're not tired. Have a look at the effort in the last two or three matches. The reason we've fallen away is a mixture of a lack of self belief and having no real depth to the squad. The first can be remedied easily enough; the other, with these nobheads we have in our boardroom, less so.

TX Bill · May 5, 2008

davek said:
Why does there have to be anyone else? You asked, I told you.

We're not tired. Have a look at the effort in the last two or three matches. The reason we've fallen away is a mixture of a lack of self belief and having no real depth to the squad. The first can be remedied easily enough; the other, with these nobheads we have in our boardroom, less so.

We will have played 54 matches (not including preseason) come Sunday.

Since I've been supporting Everton, we haven't come anywhere close to playing that many in a season.

I'm convinced that it's all caught up with us and that fatigue is the main reason for our current form. Things just haven't been "right" since the 2nd leg of the Fiorentina match.

Bruce Wayne · May 5, 2008

You forgot to mention however that in the 06/07 season Spurs managed 60 points. We have 62 already. They made the quarters of the UEFA and the semis of the LC that season, so managed one round more than us in Europe, which considering we lost on penalties is hardly much of a difference.

So we'd be ahead of Spurs in a head to head table. What about the other teams? I remember Ipswich getting relegated, the likes of Boro and Newcastle have fallen into the bottom half as a result of European football, Bolton have fallen away badly this season too.

Even the mega rich clubs have big trouble combining a win in Europe with a win domestically. I believe it's been a few years (Barca being the last) since the champion of Europe also won their domestic league. It's certainly not a common occurence.

davek · May 5, 2008

Bruce Wayne said:
You forgot to mention however that in the 06/07 season Spurs managed 60 points. We have 62 already. They made the quarters of the UEFA and the semis of the LC that season, so managed one round more than us in Europe, which considering we lost on penalties is hardly much of a difference.

So we'd be ahead of Spurs in a head to head table. What about the other teams? I remember Ipswich getting relegated, the likes of Boro and Newcastle have fallen into the bottom half as a result of European football, Bolton have fallen away badly this season too.

Even the mega rich clubs have big trouble combining a win in Europe with a win domestically. I believe it's been a few years (Barca being the last) since the champion of Europe also won their domestic league. It's certainly not a common occurence.

How did Spurs round off their season in 06/07? Was it with 5 points in 8 games?

You think the players we have on the pitch are running out of steam based on the past three matches against Chelsea, Villa and Arsenal? I just dont see it.

Jamo Martinez · May 5, 2008

Getting back to the original idea of the thread, We've got more points than the teams who've picked up more than us against the 'big 4'. As stated the league is over 38 games not 8. So City have taken 7 points off the CL elite with 6 off Utd. We took 6 off them, where are they? Mid table. It's how many points you pick up that's important, not who you take them off.

The Esk · May 5, 2008

James Martin said:
Getting back to the original idea of the thread, We've got more points than the teams who've picked up more than us against the 'big 4'. As stated the league is over 38 games not 8. So City have taken 7 points off the CL elite with 6 off Utd. We took 6 off them, where are they? Mid table. It's how many points you pick up that's important, not who you take them off.

I agree it's how many points from 38 games that's most important, but my point is why have we done so badly against the top four. Put it another way how can Middlesborough achieve 1 win and 3 draws, against our 1 draw?

It's through understanding how and where we've come up short, that improves us, and in the case of the top 4 , how we can catch and overtake eventually.

harry · May 5, 2008

TX Bill wrote.
I'm convinced that it's all caught up with us and that fatigue is the main reason for our current form. Things just haven't been "right" since the 2nd leg of the Fiorentina match.

It started before the 2nd leg against fiorentina bill. I think it was some very poor team selections and tactics and not enough quality.
Where we was getting the rub of the green earlier in the season (winning close matches) it started to even its self out and suddenly we where loosing/ drawing the close matches.