How stupid can Government get.

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Well if the places hadn't been privatised and the Royal Ordnance Factories hadn't been sold to BAE for a pittance then these vehicles would've been produced by government owned establishments (M.O.D.), however... as predicted when they were sold off to B.A.E. the prices would eventually go up and we would end up paying more for our armaments.

The Royal Ordnance Factories were privatised and flogged in about 1987, so that means the blame lies with either
  • Todays government.
  • British Aerospace.
  • The government that sold them off.


given that this was predicted by the bad socialists/militants/ unions at the time then I think we can safely say that it was the latter.
 
To an extent Reidy but that was over 20 years ago.

Does not excuse the current adminstration kicking workers in the teeth.
 
Robert Jarvis said:
Lost contract kills battle tank industry in UK - Times Online

I came across this article. Just when we need all our industry working, paying tax etc then this. How can this mean in Brown's words a fair future for all. What of the people who will lose jobs and have commitments like mortgages, hp, loans, children to bring up.

This does not exactly help the UK economy by sending money abroad and exporting jobs.
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Liam B wrote:
Why is our government so inept, incompetent and stupid?

They are poisoning the wells so the Tories lose in 4 years time.

Pathetic.

Spot on. A government "not for the few but for the many". What a joke.

What a liar Brown is.

Its beyond shortsighted. Of course Gordon Brown denied guillotining the miltary budget...

You only have to read that to know what a LIAR he is. Dripping with the blood of british servicemen and women.
 

Robert Jarvis said:
To an extent Reidy but that was over 20 years ago.

Does not excuse the current adminstration kicking workers in the teeth.
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It's the knock-on effect, blame BAE for not being competitive enough with their pricing , or The Lady that kicked the workers in the teeth 20 years ago, I was 1 of them and I lost my job then when BAE decided to shut us down and give the work to their lads, so as for BAE workers who gladly took our work.

When BAE workers have a problem they want all the other members of the manufacturing union to chip in so they can go on strike, but won't offer any support to anyone else, even to the point of gladly taking their work.
 
Lets look at the flip side of this. We're also looking at this particular moment in time for the government to be as efficient as they can in their procurement. So if they could get a better deal for this contract elsewhere then of course they should use it.

This is what the unions don't get, or don't care about. The customer is the most important person in any transaction, it isn't the worker. In a public sector environment the customer is both the obvious one, in this case the army, and the tax payer. If this consortium in Austria are delivering to spec then the army will surely be happy enough, so the tax payer then becomes the key customer, with the cheapest deal offering best value to the tax payer.
 
Actually Bruce the real money which explains a cheap procurement price is in the spares. It is then we shall really be paying. This contract is nothing more than short termism. Workers will be put on dole taking money out of the system instead of paying tax, NIC and add to that the loss in Corpration Tax because BAE will be making a much reduced profit.

What concerns me is the workers how they are being shat on by a Government which is supposed to be for the working class and talks of a fair future for all. There is the real misery.(n)
 
Thing is though, if our government starts becoming protectionist of domestic industries then so will every other government. BAe gets as much, possibly more, money from trading in America than it does here at home. Imagine if America started preventing BAe from operating there? To an extent it's already happening and EADS lost a contract recently after Boeing kicked up a stink about the very same things mentioned here. It's a vicious circle.
 

If we do not do something to help our own manufacturing industries and lose them then we will be in deep pooh, pooh. Don't recall the French worrying about buying their own tank or the Germans buying Leopards. And what do the Americans but, how about Abrams!! Really Bruce I think at times you are being too PC.

No one would have kicked up a fuss at all if BAE got the order.
 
Well EADS are a consortium of French, German and British companies so you reap what you sow. It's nothing about being PC, it's about looking after the customer, not the worker. If workers do that then they'll be fine. If someone else can do it better then they should be free to do so.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Lets look at the flip side of this. We're also looking at this particular moment in time for the government to be as efficient as they can in their procurement. So if they could get a better deal for this contract elsewhere then of course they should use it.

This is what the unions don't get, or don't care about. The customer is the most important person in any transaction, it isn't the worker. In a public sector environment the customer is both the obvious one, in this case the army, and the tax payer. If this consortium in Austria are delivering to spec then the army will surely be happy enough, so the tax payer then becomes the key customer, with the cheapest deal offering best value to the tax payer.
Click to expand...


That Bruce is what the unions were warning about when BAE took over the MOD Factories, they would increase the prices as in this country there would be no direct competition, the preffered company to buy them if it had to happen was GKN as it wouldn't give all of the cards to aerospace.
The Ordnance factories also did contracts for foreign governments, so that was bringing money into the national coffers as well, although the actual customers were a bit dubious, a Mr Hussain of Baghdad who was having a tiff with a neighbour and aerospatial of Paris who were having the major components and casings of some of their missiles made here, which they were then putting the word exocet on and selling to a Mr Galtieri of Buenos Aires.
The Saudi's were also big customers.
 
The customer in this case was the British Army, they wanted BAE's product. The treasury overruled the MOD and passed the contract abroad. So who is the customer??

We are handing out over a billion pounds to another country which we have to borrow and the british taxpayer has to pay back. The real ongoing cost like I said earlier will be in the spares.

You are missing the point Bruce.
 

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