How does the American Bail Bond system work?

[Hellerad]

There are licensing requirements. And you have to buy an operating bond for the license. The bond typically cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and is basically a cash-up-front insurance account so the bondsman can't skip out without paying a forfeited bond.

Also, defendants rarely pay what they owe. My client is currently owed around $4 million in unpaid premiums over the last 5 years. They also have to pay attorneys like me to go after these people for what they owe. That can get expensive too.

Finally, it is a dangerous job. You deal with criminals on a daily basis. And you put yourself at risk to lose tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars every day.

 

[Slavan]

what kinds of work do american prisons have prisoners doing, and how much do they make?

 

[Deleted member 28206]

So, essentially this is human trafficking with profit and government racketeering?

 

[Hellerad]

I have no idea what you mean.

Bond is simply an option for persons charged with a crime to keep from sitting in a jail cell while they await trial. The defendant can pay bond out of pocket but more often they cannot afford to do so. Bond is not a fundamental right.

Bondsman provide a service. In exchange for 10% of the bond amount, they front a defendant the money for bond. To protect themselves in case the defendant flees, they refuse to loan the money without security--same as any bank in the world for any other kind of loan.

If you use a bondsman for a $10,000 bond, and you appear in court as asked, the bondsman gets their money back and you only owe the bondsman his fee: $1,000. If you flee, the bondsman loses his $10,000 and will come after you for it, assuming he finds you and you have anything he can collect on.

The bondsman is not a government official. He or she is a private business owner. The court doesn't get a dime unless the the defendant flees. That has to be the case, as the fear of losing that money is the defendant's only incentive to go to court.

I don't see how this is human trafficking or racketeering.

I suppose there is an argument that the 10% fee is interest and therefore usurious, but good luck with that argument.

 

[Slavan]

I don't see how this is human trafficking or racketeering.

I suppose there is an argument that the 10% fee is interest and therefore usurious, but good luck with that argument.

A point was raised earlier in the thread that the state pay the prisons to mind the prisoners
In turn, the prisons have the prisoners working and make profit of it.

Is this true or is this not a common occurance?
Why does America send people to prison pre trial for othen the most trivial of offences?
Why have the democrats never questioned or tackled the American system?

 

[Hellerad]

Oh, I missed that!

I dont know about all that. Sounds exaggerated, but I can't say it doesn't happen anywhere. Arkansas has work release programs, but nothing as deviant or exploitive as what you've described. I'm sure there are plenty of bad things in our prison system, but I'd hope it is because of individual corrupt people and not government sanctioned policy.

 

[Slavan]

the system is not logical.

Thousands of men who have ended up unemployed due to the credit crunch had been imprisoned in america due to a failure to keep up child payments as they have no income.

They are stuck in prison pre trial due to an inability to pay the bail bond, resulting in a further deterioration of their personal circumstances.

Prison and long sentances are not a deterrent.

Whats the democrats view on the matter?

 

[EFC NY]

what happens if you can afford your full bail? do you pay the court yourself?

Sorry for the late response, but if you can afford the bail outright, you can certainly pay it (logistically, someone close to you actually pays it, since you are in the clink at the time). So it bail is set at $25,000, than you can give the Court $25,000 and you are out. So long as you make all your appearances, you get the full amount back at the end of the case, minus a 3% fee that the Court keeps if their is a conviction. If you can't afford this, or don't want to pay it, you can use a bail bondsman as I described above. The benefit of paying it yourself, if that you are not paying a fee to a bondsman. Most cases that have bail are set rather low (hundreds of very low thousands) and people just post the money.

Keep in mind that in NY their is no "10% thing". If the bail is $25,000, than its $25,000. The Court needs that money, down to the penny, or a note from an insurance company filed by a bail bondsman promising to pay that exact amount. Many other states will accept 10% as per their own laws.

In NY judges who don't like dealing with bail bondsman will set a separate bond amount ("bail is set at $100,000 bond, $10,000 cash"). This kind of eliminates the need for the bondsman because the fee is going to be at or near $10,000, so only an idiot will get a $100,000 bond as opposed to just posting $10,000 with the Court.

This is waaaaaaay too much information I am sure, but some people seem to find it interesting.

 

[EFC NY]

A point was raised earlier in the thread that the state pay the prisons to mind the prisoners
In turn, the prisons have the prisoners working and make profit of it.

Is this true or is this not a common occurance?
Why does America send people to prison pre trial for othen the most trivial of offences?
Why have the democrats never questioned or tackled the American system?

This is not true, especially in NY. Only persons who have been accused of serious offense, or whom are a significant flight risk, see pre-trial/disposition incarceration via high bail. A very, very, very large percentage of criminal defendants never see the inside of a jail cell at any point from beginning to end of the case.

 

[Hellerad]

Good posts EFC NY.

The same is true in Arkansas. Unless you are a repeat offender or the crime you are charged with is violent, you usually stay out on parole with your record expunged if you keep your nose clean.

That is not to say our prison system is perfect. It is far from where it should be and we should always be working to improve ourselves.

 

[Slavan]

Sorry for the late response, but if you can afford the bail outright, you can certainly pay it (logistically, someone close to you actually pays it, since you are in the clink at the time). So it bail is set at $25,000, than you can give the Court $25,000 and you are out. So long as you make all your appearances, you get the full amount back at the end of the case, minus a 3% fee that the Court keeps if their is a conviction. .

So the court has an incentive to find people guilty?

Also, what do you make of celebrity judges?
I was reading an article where certain judges with reputations for enjoying the press and public attention and reputation; have high rates of sending people into custody for contempt of court.
Often the charges dont stick as the only thing they did wrong was not to massage the judges ego.
How can this be allowed?

 

[Hellerad]

"Celebrity" judges are not actually judges. They are actually arbitrators. The parties contract and agree to obey the arbitrators judgment. They have nothing to do with the American court system.

 

[EFC NY]

So the court has an incentive to find people guilty?

Also, what do you make of celebrity judges?
I was reading an article where certain judges with reputations for enjoying the press and public attention and reputation; have high rates of sending people into custody for contempt of court.
Often the charges dont stick as the only thing they did wrong was not to massage the judges ego.
How can this be allowed?

Nearly all trials are conducted before juries. Juries are, at least in NY, either 6 or 12 individuals chosen from the citizenry to decide the case. The judge does not find the defendant guilty. In cases where a defendant waives a jury, then the judge is the trier of fact and will either find the defendant guilty or acquit them. However, I would be shocked if the 3% poundage enters their mind. The judge doesn't receive the money. And I am not sure on this point, but I think that the money goes to the State anyway. No one on the local level cares one iota or benefits from a few bucks going to the state either way. Its very rare that you see cash bail above $50,000. 3% of that is only $1,500. Nearly all cases are decided by some sort of plea deal. Of the few that go to trial, nearly all will be tried before juries. Thus, the amount of "bench trials" (ie the one's decided by judges) that also have large cash bails to which 3% means something is a very very very rare occurrence.

 

[EFC NY]

So the court has an incentive to find people guilty?

Also, what do you make of celebrity judges?
I was reading an article where certain judges with reputations for enjoying the press and public attention and reputation; have high rates of sending people into custody for contempt of court.
Often the charges dont stick as the only thing they did wrong was not to massage the judges ego.
How can this be allowed?

I have been in and out of criminal court rooms almost on a daily basis for 15 years or so. I have never once seen, or even heard of, an individual being incarcerated for contempt of court.

 

[Hellerad]

I have had individuals held in contempt of court for refusing to follow orders of the court. Generally this is for refusing to honor injunctions or orders of possession. In those cases, it is civil contempt and they are usually held for a week or so until they agree to hand over property they are concealing.

Criminal contempt is usually behavior in the courtroom and is extremely rare and limited.