Home nations. Underachievers?

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Which home nation* has underachiever historically relative to population, football development infrastructure, and league strength/ popularity?

*For the purposes of the rudimentary piece of social research Eire, rightly or wrongly, are classified as a 'home nation'.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Reposting here

I mean, it's obviously England

Only one World Cup in 93 years despite the success of the Premier League and club sides in Europe

Scotland has one Champions League/European Cup to it's name, and that was in 1967. Nottingham Forest have won double the amount of Champs League/European Cups than the entirety of Scottish Football

Qualifying for major tournaments and just missing out on making the knockout stage is about par for Scotland

Ireland have actually managed to make the knockouts, as have Northern Ireland and Wales

From most under achieving to least underachieving you'd probably have to go

England (One World Cup and no European Championships despite having the players they've had? They massively underachieved in the 00's in particular)

Scotland (Should have really made it out of the groups at one of those tournaments in the 70's, 80's and 90's)

Republic of Ireland (Did well at times in the 90's, 00's and 10's, but look at some of the players they had to call on during those times, especially when they started recruiting English, Scottish and Irish players of Irish heritage)

Wales (probably the lowest level of club football of the five countries, but if you look at the players they had in the 80's and 90's then they should have made at least one tournament)

Northern Ireland (Small population, probably a better league than Wales ((I'd expect Linfield to beat TNS for instance)) and they did well to make the knockouts in 82. They've overachieved the most IMO)

 

[Nymzee]

Only one World Cup in 93 years despite the success of the Premier League and club sides in Europe

Pardon? How many English players are winning the PL and CL/EL exactly? Just because an English club is successful shouldn't mean a national team should. City, best team in the world, have 6 English players in their squad. Arsenal, 2nd best in the league, used 2 last year.

 

[MikeH72]

Does population come into it when half of your squad was born in and have lived their entire lives in another country?

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Lovers on toast?

It's meant to be losers. Bloody fat fingers/predictive text/joey66 disease.

One day I will get a poll right.

 

[Moomin]

Lovers on toast?

It's meant to be losers. Bloody fat fingers/predictive text/joey66 disease.

One day I will get a poll right.

Lovers on toast creates a strong image.

 

[Calvin]

Reposting here

Scottish clubs teams have overachieved in Europe.
They’ve won the European cup, Cup winners Cup twice and the European SuperCup all with teams in which all the players were Scottish and all the subs were Scottish, except Rangers had a German goalkeeper on the bench during their Cup winners Cup success. That’s just the winning occasions, there’s a lot of instances of Scottish clubs getting to finals, semi-finals, quarter finals etc.
And I think that the majority of English club team success in Europe, the English club had usually 2-3 Scottish players in the starting lineups. And usually an Irishman or two a Welshman etc. At least up until the 90’s. Other than 1966 and the U21’s etc. I don’t think a purely English team has won anything?
As far as international football goes Scotland have been poor in tournaments, with some of the players/squads we’ve had, we’ve performed poorly at tournaments.
Which hopefully will change during the EURO’s in Germany.
Got to say England have been the biggest underachievers considering the player pool they have to choose from. Winning 1 competition in 1966 is a poor return.
This ties in with the post in which I asked how many “World Class” players England have produced. If England had won more at International competitions there would be no debate over a player like Wayne Rooney being “World Class” or others where there’s argument on both sides. If they’d have won a EURO’s or World Cup, there’s no debate.

 

[MikeH72]

Scottish clubs teams have overachieved in Europe.
They’ve won the European cup, Cup winners Cup twice and the European SuperCup all with teams in which all the players were Scottish and all the subs were Scottish, except Rangers had a German goalkeeper on the bench during their Cup winners Cup success. That’s just the winning occasions, there’s a lot of instances of Scottish clubs getting to finals, semi-finals, quarter finals etc.
And I think that the majority of English club team success in Europe, the English club had usually 2-3 Scottish players in the starting lineups. And usually an Irishman or two a Welshman etc. At least up until the 90’s. Other than 1966 and the U21’s etc. I don’t think a purely English team has won anything?
As far as international football goes Scotland have been poor in tournaments, with some of the players/squads we’ve had, we’ve performed poorly at tournaments.
Which hopefully will change during the EURO’s in Germany.
Got to say England have been the biggest underachievers considering the player pool they have to choose from. Winning 1 competition in 1966 is a poor return.
This ties in with the post in which I asked how many “World Class” players England have produced. If England had won more at International competitions there would be no debate over a player like Wayne Rooney being “World Class” or others where there’s argument on both sides. If they’d have won a EURO’s or World Cup, there’s no debate.

What did Jim Baxter win to give him the world class tag that Wayne Rooney isn’t worthy of, Cal?

 

[Nymzee]

What did Jim Baxter win to give him the world class tag that Wayne Rooney isn’t worthy of, Cal?

Came second in a tournament that Everton have won. Everton.

 

[Calvin]

What did Jim Baxter win to give him the world class tag that Wayne Rooney isn’t worthy of, Cal?

I think it’s different for smaller countries. George Best didn’t make an international tournament, is he not World Class?
I think if you are claiming you have a team of players, some of whom are World Class and others just below it, you need to win something at international level to cement those claims.
And as you know I said Baxter was “Potentially”, he never reached his potential.

 

[MikeH72]

I think it’s different for smaller countries. George Best didn’t make an international tournament, is he not World Class?
I think if you are claiming you have a team of players, some of whom are World Class and others just below it, you need to win something at international level to cement those claims.
And as you know I said Baxter was “Potentially”, he never reached his potential.

Raul never won an international tournament either. Neither did Luis Figo. Neither did Arjen Robben or Roberto Baggio. It’s absolute nonsense to suggest you need to win an international tournament to be world class.

 

[YoboCopter]

england should have won more than one world cup thats not up for debate

 

[Nymzee]

I like how England apparently should have won all these tournaments as if the likes of Brazil, Argentina and France are pushovers.

 

[Calvin]

Raul never won an international tournament either. Neither did Luis Figo. Neither did Arjen Robben or Roberto Baggio. It’s absolute nonsense to suggest you need to win an international tournament to be world class.

I said it would take away any debate.
Anyway it’s my opinion that it’s something within the English character, personality, in their DNA which prevents them from winning anything of note. Which is why their club teams have needed players from other nations to help them achieve success.
1966 was a freak occurrence an outlier, and they probably did get help from foreigners.

 

[MikeH72]

I said it would take away any debate.
Anyway it’s my opinion that it’s something within the English character, personality, in their DNA which prevents them from winning anything of note. Which is why their club teams have needed players from other nations to help them achieve success.

What century are you living in? What club teams have won anything recently with teams made up entirely of players from their own country? Even Pep’s Barca had Messi, Henry, Abidal etc, it’s an incredibly bizarre argument to make.