Has Common Sense Disappeared Completely?

[Tubey]

Right, so I know the whole "political/racism" thread thing on GOT, and I'm not trying to stoke the fire here, as I think this is something we can all agree on.

It's just this "racial profiling" fiasco that's in the news at the moment (basically, the Border Agency are accused of targetting ethnic minorities for spot checks and general anti-illegal immigration measures.

As some of you will know, I'm a fan of beneficial immigration and I think the problems of it are greatly overblown by some of the more... erm... "militant" people out and about.

But surely, surely there has to be a degree of common sense here - when we're talking about illegal immigration, it's got to be entirely fair to expect the lions share to be African/Asian etc.?

If you lined up 10 illegal immigrants at random, I'd be gobsmacked if there was a white person in the line-up.

The Border Agency have been forced to say they are "intelligence-led" in what they do, but surely it would be "intelligent" to just say "hey, you know what, common sense says that illegal immigrants are pretty likely to be from certain areas of the world, so guess what groups we keep a closer eye on overall?"

I've been watching the news today utterly baffled because everyone is avoiding the obvious, just so they don't come across as racist or something. Is anyone else bewildered by it?

Story here: http://news.sky.com/story/1123466/home-office-immigration-tactics-investigated

 

[tommye]

Namby pamby liberalism at it's worst.
'we know they're black Tarquin, but ffs don't ever tell them'

 

[TheFinnFan]

15 posts

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

Well they have to base it on information they gather or it'd be a waste of time gathering it. Plus they'll monitor certain places on the French coast where potential illegals are known to gather before making their way across the channel. They can't exactly observe that a place like Sangatte is full of folk of a certain origin and then ignore them. They are there to protect our borders and that is what they are doing.

I also think that in regard to any of these coming over the channel they should be billing the French as they have obviously ignored them knowing that they will be out of their hair as soon as there's an opportunity of hopping over here, and they must be illegal there as well otherwise they'd be allowed here. Likewise if the French know they are entering through Spain then they should bill them if that is where Europes borders are compromised.

 

[davek]

Right, so I know the whole "political/racism" thread thing on GOT, and I'm not trying to stoke the fire here, as I think this is something we can all agree on.

It's just this "racial profiling" fiasco that's in the news at the moment (basically, the Border Agency are accused of targetting ethnic minorities for spot checks and general anti-illegal immigration measures.

As some of you will know, I'm a fan of beneficial immigration and I think the problems of it are greatly overblown by some of the more... erm... "militant" people out and about.

But surely, surely there has to be a degree of common sense here - when we're talking about illegal immigration, it's got to be entirely fair to expect the lions share to be African/Asian etc.?

If you lined up 10 illegal immigrants at random, I'd be gobsmacked if there was a white person in the line-up.

The Border Agency have been forced to say they are "intelligence-led" in what they do, but surely it would be "intelligent" to just say "hey, you know what, common sense says that illegal immigrants are pretty likely to be from certain areas of the world, so guess what groups we keep a closer eye on overall?"

I've been watching the news today utterly baffled because everyone is avoiding the obvious, just so they don't come across as racist or something. Is anyone else bewildered by it?

Story here: http://news.sky.com/story/1123466/home-office-immigration-tactics-investigated

Lions share is the key phrase. Lions share of illegals, maybe. But if you're Asian/African and legitimately here as most are and you get stopped by some thick tvvat because you're dark skinned, that's not really going to sit too well is it?

 

[noharmdone]

Romanian gangs... Gobsh*tes..
Romanians.. Sound.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Top popcorning from Tubey here.

Walk round the streets of London mate. I'll show you something, to make you change your mind. Cuturally and racially diverse, no way can you justify stopping black, brown or yellow people at train or tube stations. If they have intelligence that suggests that people are illegal immigrants then pay them a visit where they live or work.

Plainly the people stopped in Wales will be questioned in Welsh and deported to England if they don't understand.

I love the line which says "It is not just those who have been stopped who think these tactics are out of order, with some witnesses arguing the checks were prompted by race, not intelligence." which kind of suggests they won't stop people who look a bit thick

/gets coat

15 posts

More than that mate. Most of the mods are half cut in the pub at this time on a Friday

 

[Tubey]

Lions share is the key phrase. Lions share of illegals, maybe. But if you're Asian/African and legitimately here as most are and you get stopped by some thick tvvat because you're dark skinned, that's not really going to sit too well is it?

Actually, if it were me, I'd understand it completely.

Entering a country is a pretty big deal; it's not like getting followed around by a store security guard in London if he overhears your Scouse accent as you walk in. That is based on a pure stereotype led by ignorance and foolishness; what the UKBA are doing (if they're doing it at all) are acting on established trends, common sense and data.

 

[davek]

Actually, if it were me, I'd understand it completely.

Entering a country is a pretty big deal; it's not like getting followed around by a store security guard in London if he overhears your Scouse accent as you walk in. That is based on a pure stereotype led by ignorance and foolishness; what the UKBA are doing (if they're doing it at all) are acting on established trends, common sense and data.

Yeah, I'm sure if you were stopped and asked for papers enough times by graceless hired harrassers you'd be all understanding and liberal about it.

 

[Tubey]

Top popcorning from Tubey here.

Walk round the streets of London mate. I'll show you something, to make you change your mind. Cuturally and racially diverse, no way can you justify stopping black, brown or yellow people at train or tube stations.

Why not? Nobody would bat an eyelid at an Islamic-focussed security strategy at airports in the wake of 9/11, because common sense would tell you that it is a high-risk group and you'd be negligent to not come to that conclusion.

If you're a legal immigrant in the UK and you're stopped for an immigration check, you should have a level of common-sense to accept the reasoning and logic behind it. After all, you're not going to be in any trouble if you're legal, and it's an activity that increases the countries confidence and trust in a multi-cultural society as a whole.

In short, a legal immigrant being stop-checked should actually see it as an example of a system determined to be effective to improve lives for all.

Yeah, I'm sure if you were stopped and asked for papers enough times by graceless hired harrassers you'd be all understanding and liberal about it.

Wrong way to paint a bunch of people doing their jobs.

But yes, I would, as I'd understand the logic behind it. What would I have to hide? Highly doubt any one person would be stopped more than once anyway.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Actually, if it were me, I'd understand it completely.

Entering a country is a pretty big deal; it's not like getting followed around by a store security guard in London if he overhears your Scouse accent as you walk in. That is based on a pure stereotype led by ignorance and foolishness; what the UKBA are doing (if they're doing it at all) are acting on established trends, common sense and data.

To be fair, although the Scouse thing is a stereotype it has some basis in fact too. The latest stats from the home office show that the average person living in inner <L> postcode is 32% more likely to commit a bulglary than the average inner city dweller based on cities with a population greater than a figure I can't remember off-hand.

The facts don't lie mate, look at the governments own figures if you don't believe me http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/crime-justice/crime/property-crime/inner_city_rates.html

 

[Woolly Blue]

Why not? Nobody would bat an eyelid at an Islamic-focussed security strategy at airports in the wake of 9/11, because common sense would tell you that it is a high-risk group and you'd be negligent to not come to that conclusion.

If you're a legal immigrant in the UK and you're stopped for an immigration check, you should have a level of common-sense to accept the reasoning and logic behind it. After all, you're not going to be in any trouble if you're legal, and it's an activity that increases the countries confidence and trust in a multi-cultural society as a whole.

In short, a legal immigrant being stop-checked should actually see it as an example of a system determined to be effective to improve lives for all.


.

Actually there is a big difference. There's very little point in making random checks at airports on people who look like Islamic terrorists because

a ) Islamic terror groups will just recruit white-skinned folk and make sure they're clean shaven to get round that anyway. Terrorists aren't stupid and

b ) Any that are caught will be idolised by their brethren

Also, they're in the process of entering the country so that's a natural place to check people. Stopping people in London, Manchester, Wales, Somerset etc to check their status can only be seen to be justified if a reasonably high % of the people questioned turn out to be illegals. Otherwise it suggests the intelligence is sh^te and people are being questioned based on the colour of their skin, which basically, is racism.

 

[Tubey]

Actually there is a big difference. There's very little point in making random checks at airports on people who look like Islamic terrorists because

a ) Islamic terror groups will just recruit white-skinned folk and make sure they're clean shaven to get round that anyway. Terrorists aren't stupid and

b ) Any that are caught will be idolised by their brethren

Also, they're in the process of entering the country so that's a natural place to check people. Stopping people in London, Manchester, Wales, Somerset etc to check their status can only be seen to be justified if a reasonably high % of the people questioned turn out to be illegals. Otherwise it suggests the intelligence is sh^te and people are being questioned based on the colour of their skin, which basically, is racism.

Actually, I'd argue stop checks in the country at large can be justified if illegal immigration is determined to be high in any given area. Checks at the point of access doesn't address any existing illegals within the country.

A quote from Stephen Lawrence's mother:

"I'm sure there's illegal immigrants from all countries, but why would you focus that on people of colour?

I mean, come on, really? Why do you think it is Mrs. Lawrence? Take a wild guess.

Pure racial profile isn't occurring; the authorities are rightfully targeting very obvious areas to combat the issue they've been tasked to solve.

 

[Tubey]

Just laughed out loud at a comment on Sky News about this:

Does this mean the Border Agency have to stop question twice as many people?

The police had to stop and question as many white folks as those of other races at one time. Then they ticked boxes to prove they were not racist as they had stopped equal numbers of different racial groups.

Hahaha... Imagine it.

"Hey Tim, we should stop that guy over there?"

"No he's black mate, we've done six of them today. Let's go and pull over that white girl next to Iceland with two kids to balance the books."

 

[davek]

Wrong way to paint a bunch of people doing their jobs.

Following people around all day and asking them to justify their existence. They sound like great lads. If they get battered I'd laugh me bollocks off.