Grass Roots

[GhostOfDixie]

Just listened to Gerry Francis and his opinions on how the England setup should be. He made some good points. I also believe he is the Academy manager at Spurs.

He says this:

- Friendly matches at all levels, the clubs have to decide if they want to let their players go, or how much they can play.

- Qualifiers, the players if called up have to go regardless of what the club say. It happens in cricket, why shouldn't it happen in football. I know there is the wages issue, well would it be a tragedy if Wayne Rooney earned 20% less of his salary? He earns more from commericals anyway.

- Wayne Rooney should play in the U21 Euros. Win at a lower level and take that winning mentality into the seniors.

He has made some great points, but what I think is vital is that we look at the U17s, U18s, U21's before we even consider the seniors.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

People have been saying for a long time that the youth systems in Britain are broken and that young children spend too long playing matches and not enough time is spent on technique.

Then when you get into the reserves and the technique is largely established and players need to learn matchplay the opposite is the case, with reserve matches happening sporadically and often at a very low intensity.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Well I think they should scrap the reserves completely. For us its pointless, because we have very little seniors in there.

It should be U17's, U19's, Senior. And obviously U15's down to U7's.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

What should happen is a foreign cap.

Next 3 years at least one home grown (players through the clubs academy) should be named in every match day squad.

After 5/6 years at least two English players...

After 10 years at least three English players...

Champions League/UEFA Cup squads should contain at least 5 home grown players. Players through the clubs academy. So for us, Vaughan, Anichebe, Osman, Hibebrt, Kissock etc...

 

[micknick]

England under 21's always seem to produce decent sides. Remember Peter Taylors undefeated run with teh under 21's?! They still sacked him and brought in the great David Platt!

Its about those sides taking the next step up- thats the process Im more worried about.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Well that should not be a problem if they are a unit from day 1. Its just too fragmented at the moment. Rooney for example by rights should still be in the U21's. But because of the lack of talent up front it was hard to keep him there.

He has missed out on that education of playing with his peers.

I also remember Owen doing well in the youth sides with a certain Danny Murphy. But that soon stopped as soon as the senior sides were next for them.

@Danny, I agree with that to an extent, I actually think it needs to be more, more academy players sooner. I mean most clubs already play homegrown players. So in 10 years having just 3 homegrown players is not really enough.

Plus what about Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool? They have a youth side full of foreign kids. So that needs to stop too.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How on earth would a cap on foreign players raise standards? We have a largely British squad but it doesn't turn Lescott into Maldini does it.

How many foreign players were in English football when Graham Taylor was manager and people like Carlton Palmer were regulars? If you want to see why we're [Poor language removed] go and watch any Sunday League match this weekend and listen to the parents on the sideline telling little Jonny to "get [Poor language removed] stuck in". That's why we're [Poor language removed], too much emphasis on competition at a young age and not enough on technique. How many 'coaches' of youth football are qualified and how many are dads that think they know whats what?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/08/nfootie208.xml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/08/nfootie08.xml

http://www.giveusbackourgame.co.uk

 

[SuitsBlue]

school of hard knocks?

fighting to earn a place in an academy?

learning the physical nature of the game early to avoid 'those' challenges - because all the technique in the world doesnt guarantee not getting a broken leg.

 

[Durden]

U21's are a bit strange for example the 1989 WC Scotland got to the final, of that team only Paul Dickov really did anything. Pele actually stated that Gary Bolan was the best defender he had seen since young Maldini. Bollan didnt acheive much after.

 

[SuitsBlue]

sounds like a bit of a hex.

way to nobble the tartan army pele.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

How on earth would a cap on foreign players raise standards? We have a largely British squad but it doesn't turn Lescott into Maldini does it.

How many foreign players were in English football when Graham Taylor was manager and people like Carlton Palmer were regulars? If you want to see why we're [Poor language removed] go and watch any Sunday League match this weekend and listen to the parents on the sideline telling little Jonny to "get [Poor language removed] stuck in". That's why we're [Poor language removed], too much emphasis on competition at a young age and not enough on technique. How many 'coaches' of youth football are qualified and how many are dads that think they know whats what?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/08/nfootie208.xml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/08/nfootie08.xml

http://www.giveusbackourgame.co.uk

Well for a kick off it will give English players more of a chance to play in the Premier league.

It will give English players more chance to play with English players and not foreign players.

It will give the Premier League more of an English feel, instead of the foreign invasion.

Its not hard to see mate, I suspect that your in the minority, especially when many leading experts in that field are saying that perhaps their are too many foreigners in the Premier league. The only reason why they are not saying it too loudly is because if we do, we are seen as racist scum.

Too much PC bollocks goes on in this country and not enough [Poor language removed] pride for the flag.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

school of hard knocks?

fighting to earn a place in an academy?

learning the physical nature of the game early to avoid 'those' challenges - because all the technique in the world doesnt guarantee not getting a broken leg.

There you go, that's why we havn't won diddly since 1966. Have a look at the Argentina youth system that has produced the Messi's, the Tevez's, the Saviola's of this world. All of those three are short guys with amazing technique and I doubt any of them would have been produced by an English system precisely due to the mentality you just highlighted. You spoke in another thread about being tough on criminals. When I worked in a local school the PE teacher was accused of being a paedo because he made a kid play rugby in the rain. That's the mentality we're creating in our society now. Who the [Poor language removed] in their right mind would want to work with kids these days when one accusation can get the mindless vigilanties trashing your life.

But hey, as long as we have dad's coaching the boys, dad's that generally don't know [Poor language removed] we may continue to produce the odd Joey Barton or Lee Bowyer. Who cares that the likes of Holland, Portugal, Brazil and Argentina are so far ahead of us in terms of youth development it's scary. We're England, we invented this [Poor language removed] game so everyone better know their place. Lampard covered 12,000 metres on Wednesday night. Pretty cool huh. That's what our youth system produces, players that can run all day, that can get stuck in. School of hard knocks right. The fact that we havn't won anything for so long sure isn't our fault, no need to change anything we're doing, lets blame the foreigners.

Well for a kick off it will give English players more of a chance to play in the Premier league.

It will give English players more chance to play with English players and not foreign players.

It will give the Premier League more of an English feel, instead of the foreign invasion.

Its not hard to see mate, I suspect that your in the minority, especially when many leading experts in that field are saying that perhaps their are too many foreigners in the Premier league. The only reason why they are not saying it too loudly is because if we do, we are seen as racist scum.

Too much PC bollocks goes on in this country and not enough [Poor language removed] pride for the flag.

Like I said in the post you have quoted, how many foreign players were there in the English league when Graham Taylor was manager? 10 perhaps? How many were there in 1974 and 1978 when we failed to qualify for the WC? Bugger all I suspect. Who was to blame back then for us being [Poor language removed]? Probably the blacks or someone.

It's easy to point the blame at foreigners for our own troubles, it reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Quimby overspends on a bear tax and bewildered by the stupidity of the electorate for wanting it in the first place and then complaining about the cost, he blames the budget deficit on immigrants because he knows that they're everyones whipping boy.

But still you want quotas in the naive believe that it will make the path to World Cup glory laden with gold. Funny really, South Africa want quotas to get more blacks in their sports teams, heck Zimbabwe put quotas on pretty much everything in the name of redistribution, of making things more 'Zimbabwean'. Lovely examples to follow huh.

 

[Cal]

Perry Mancis ffs.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

There you go, that's why we havn't won diddly since 1966. Have a look at the Argentina youth system that has produced the Messi's, the Tevez's, the Saviola's of this world. All of those three are short guys with amazing technique and I doubt any of them would have been produced by an English system precisely due to the mentality you just highlighted. You spoke in another thread about being tough on criminals. When I worked in a local school the PE teacher was accused of being a paedo because he made a kid play rugby in the rain. That's the mentality we're creating in our society now. Who the [Poor language removed] in their right mind would want to work with kids these days when one accusation can get the mindless vigilanties trashing your life.

But hey, as long as we have dad's coaching the boys, dad's that generally don't know [Poor language removed] we may continue to produce the odd Joey Barton or Lee Bowyer. Who cares that the likes of Holland, Portugal, Brazil and Argentina are so far ahead of us in terms of youth development it's scary. We're England, we invented this [Poor language removed] game so everyone better know their place. Lampard covered 12,000 metres on Wednesday night. Pretty cool huh. That's what our youth system produces, players that can run all day, that can get stuck in. School of hard knocks right. The fact that we havn't won anything for so long sure isn't our fault, no need to change anything we're doing, lets blame the foreigners.



Like I said in the post you have quoted, how many foreign players were there in the English league when Graham Taylor was manager? 10 perhaps? How many were there in 1974 and 1978 when we failed to qualify for the WC? Bugger all I suspect. Who was to blame back then for us being [Poor language removed]? Probably the blacks or someone.

It's easy to point the blame at foreigners for our own troubles, it reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Quimby overspends on a bear tax and bewildered by the stupidity of the electorate for wanting it in the first place and then complaining about the cost, he blames the budget deficit on immigrants because he knows that they're everyones whipping boy.

But still you want quotas in the naive believe that it will make the path to World Cup glory laden with gold. Funny really, South Africa want quotas to get more blacks in their sports teams, heck Zimbabwe put quotas on pretty much everything in the name of redistribution, of making things more 'Zimbabwean'. Lovely examples to follow huh.

Ok, so all the leading lights in the game are wrong, all the pundits are wrong?

 

[SuitsBlue]

Well for a kick off it will give English players more of a chance to play in the Premier league.

It will give English players more chance to play with English players and not foreign players.

It will give the Premier League more of an English feel, instead of the foreign invasion.

Its not hard to see mate, I suspect that your in the minority, especially when many leading experts in that field are saying that perhaps their are too many foreigners in the Premier league. The only reason why they are not saying it too loudly is because if we do, we are seen as racist scum.

Too much PC bollocks goes on in this country and not enough [Poor language removed] pride for the flag.

a most fascinating freudian slip.