France 13 England 24
- Thread starter Piijt
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DENNIS STEVENS
Player Valuation: £20m
i used to love rugby union, but that silly line-out they have nowadays has spoiled it for me - looks like a tumbling act in a circus, a bad one too! why don't they just have a scrum or a short line-out with no gimmicks?
Urgh, that was a dire way to spend 90 minutes. Thankfully France were even worse than we were. Our ambition seems limited to dominating scrums and kicking the resultant penalties, regardless of where they are on the pitch. Poor Vainikolo could have taken a deck chair out with him the amount of time the ball came his way.
A win is a win I suppose, especially in Paris, but it's not hard to see why we messed up against Wales and almost against Italy. Big, big improvements needed.
A win is a win I suppose, especially in Paris, but it's not hard to see why we messed up against Wales and almost against Italy. Big, big improvements needed.
Welton Toffee
Player Valuation: £40m
I watched it whilst babysitting. I think I may have woke the kids up at the end 
monty
Sack Sky and donate to GOT...donations are needed
As far as I'm concerned in was at best workman like otherwise dull and boring performance by England. The French were frankly pathetic, a great disappointment. Why pick Vainikolo if you are not going to use him, he could have walked through that paper thin defence on a few occasions but we chose to do things the hard way. less than impressed in what seems to be a very poor seasons rugby all round. 
Still it is good to the the Frogs in their own back yard though
Still it is good to the the Frogs in their own back yard though
Vim Fuego
Player Valuation: £35m
As far as I'm concerned in was at best workman like otherwise dull and boring performance by England. The French were frankly pathetic, a great disappointment. Why pick Vainikolo if you are not going to use him, he could have walked through that paper thin defence on a few occasions but we chose to do things the hard way. less than impressed in what seems to be a very poor seasons rugby all round.
Still it is good to the the Frogs in their own back yard though
I couldn't have expressed it any better, i love it when we beat the great unwashed.
And yet we get nonsense like this from Brian Ashton.
A performance like what? We were good defensively but regularly lost both the breakdown and the lineouts resulting in intermittent posession. When we did get the ball too often we stuck with the tight forwards trundling forward a few yards.
A performance like what? We were good defensively but regularly lost both the breakdown and the lineouts resulting in intermittent posession. When we did get the ball too often we stuck with the tight forwards trundling forward a few yards.
monty
Sack Sky and donate to GOT...donations are needed
There is bugger all we can do about Bruce other than celebrate the one positive we beat a really [Poor language removed] French side in Paris and the fans will have got pissed off their heads. If we as football fans feel that way then the rugger guru's will certainly be relaying more realistic messgaes to frined Ashton, at least I hope they will.
Welton Toffee
Player Valuation: £40m
Iain Balshaw is [Poor language removed]. Nick Abendanon of Bath is loads better
The Australians must laugh at us though, they really must. Heck, Clive Woodward must be laughing at us. Back in 2003 we played some fantastic stuff, going down under to beat them in their own back yard prior to the World Cup. It was real 'total rugby' stuff, almost southern hemisphere in style. We resorted largely to ten man rugby in the WC itself in order to win and have gone backwards ever since. I disagreed at the time of that triumph about all the hoopla heaped upon the players. That sort of thing should be saved for the end of careers as it dulls the competitive instinct. Exactly the same has happened to our cricket team. At a time when we should have built on the Ashes win to become the best team around we believed the hype and are now languishing in 5th place in the table.
Sadly the lessons simply don't get learnt because I get the feeling that scraping to the WC final in France has led people to believe we're a good side. We're not, we're a dreadful side. We beat Australia in much the same way that we beat France at the weekend - a dominant scrum and good defence. France are famous for choking so it was no surprise we did for them in the semi's. The final showed up our state against a decent Boks side because when we so desperately needed some attacking flair in the final 20 minutes we had nothing to offer, constantly crabbing sideways with no momentum going forward.
Andy Farrell got battered by the hooray Henry's in the press but we sure don't look any better without him in the side. Five years later and we still havn't come close to replacing Hill/Back/Dallaglio in the back row. As a result we constantly loose the breakdown and get slow ball in attack. The best attacking side are NZ and just look at their breakdown. The player is tackled and almost immediately Collins or McCaw or So'Ialo (sp) are hitting the breakdown, clearing things out, and the ball has gone. The defense then has no time to settle meaning gaps for the backs to exploit. Instead we get slow ball, the forwards then resort to trundling forward around the sides and we either turn the ball over or kick for touch. It's dreadful. It really is dreadful.
We have missed a huge trick in letting Sean Edwards defect to Wales. He's shown for years at Wasps that he can produce excellent teams and is making Wales punch far above their weight at the moment. Instead we have a guy who appeared to lose all control over proceedings at the World Cup and since then has insisted on picking his favourites when far better alternatives are out there. The likes of Regan, Vickery and Balshaw should go and go quickly (or as quickly as these plodders can). I'd also be tempted to jettison golden balls as he offers very little in attack. I thought we'd start seeing a new Wilkinson after his bright start against Italy but it was back to the same old against France. The likes of Carter and Larkham show what a fly-half should offer with ball in hand, and unfortunately Wilkinson has neither pace nor flair and is a glorified Butch James.
Sadly the lessons simply don't get learnt because I get the feeling that scraping to the WC final in France has led people to believe we're a good side. We're not, we're a dreadful side. We beat Australia in much the same way that we beat France at the weekend - a dominant scrum and good defence. France are famous for choking so it was no surprise we did for them in the semi's. The final showed up our state against a decent Boks side because when we so desperately needed some attacking flair in the final 20 minutes we had nothing to offer, constantly crabbing sideways with no momentum going forward.
Andy Farrell got battered by the hooray Henry's in the press but we sure don't look any better without him in the side. Five years later and we still havn't come close to replacing Hill/Back/Dallaglio in the back row. As a result we constantly loose the breakdown and get slow ball in attack. The best attacking side are NZ and just look at their breakdown. The player is tackled and almost immediately Collins or McCaw or So'Ialo (sp) are hitting the breakdown, clearing things out, and the ball has gone. The defense then has no time to settle meaning gaps for the backs to exploit. Instead we get slow ball, the forwards then resort to trundling forward around the sides and we either turn the ball over or kick for touch. It's dreadful. It really is dreadful.
We have missed a huge trick in letting Sean Edwards defect to Wales. He's shown for years at Wasps that he can produce excellent teams and is making Wales punch far above their weight at the moment. Instead we have a guy who appeared to lose all control over proceedings at the World Cup and since then has insisted on picking his favourites when far better alternatives are out there. The likes of Regan, Vickery and Balshaw should go and go quickly (or as quickly as these plodders can). I'd also be tempted to jettison golden balls as he offers very little in attack. I thought we'd start seeing a new Wilkinson after his bright start against Italy but it was back to the same old against France. The likes of Carter and Larkham show what a fly-half should offer with ball in hand, and unfortunately Wilkinson has neither pace nor flair and is a glorified Butch James.
Balshaw is a real let down. When he first came onto the scene he reminded me of Christian Cullen (who incidently is the best fb I've ever seen, indeed the back three of him, Lomu and Wilson is the best I've ever seen).
Now though he's just rank, rank, rank. There are widespread calls for Josh Lewsey to come back but sadly he's another who has faded badly post WC2003. He averaged almost a try a game at that point but hardly ever scores now. His decline has almost been as bad as Ben Cohen, a guy who back in 2003 looked like he had it all, yet now can't even find a club.
Bad things are open bus rides.
Now though he's just rank, rank, rank. There are widespread calls for Josh Lewsey to come back but sadly he's another who has faded badly post WC2003. He averaged almost a try a game at that point but hardly ever scores now. His decline has almost been as bad as Ben Cohen, a guy who back in 2003 looked like he had it all, yet now can't even find a club.
Bad things are open bus rides.
Welton Toffee
Player Valuation: £40m
Time to give the kids a chance methinks. Regan was terrible last night. Wouldn't be at all surprised if that's his last start as the commentators were speculating. Lee Mears (again of Bath, we're full of quality players us 
) has been doing very well this season. And he can throw a ball, which is always useful....
I personally don't think Phil Vicory is doing enough to warrant a starting place either. But I doubt Ashton will drop his captain.
The one bright spark from last night for me (aside the actual result) was Vainikolo. In defence he was superb and he showed glimpses of his power in attack. Like monts said though, if only we'd utilised him a bit more!
) has been doing very well this season. And he can throw a ball, which is always useful....I personally don't think Phil Vicory is doing enough to warrant a starting place either. But I doubt Ashton will drop his captain.
The one bright spark from last night for me (aside the actual result) was Vainikolo. In defence he was superb and he showed glimpses of his power in attack. Like monts said though, if only we'd utilised him a bit more!
You could say the same about any of our backs though. Sackey did ok the few times he had the ball. I can't remember anything the midfield did in attack. Noon, and to a lesser extent Flood were decent in defence but backs are picked for their attacking ability and neither did anything.
I guess it all comes down to the ruck again and the failure of our backrow to dominate it. We've tried a shed load of players there and none have looked good enough. It's the same in whatever form of rugby. I watched Bradford v Saints in Super League on Friday night and you could see that whenever Saints managed to get a quick play of the ball the players upped the intensity and swarmed all over Bradford.
I forget who it was that made the break yesterday, might have been Noon, but they got over the gain line and turned the ball back on the floor but none of our back row were anywhere near him and the French simply walked through and stole possession.
I guess it all comes down to the ruck again and the failure of our backrow to dominate it. We've tried a shed load of players there and none have looked good enough. It's the same in whatever form of rugby. I watched Bradford v Saints in Super League on Friday night and you could see that whenever Saints managed to get a quick play of the ball the players upped the intensity and swarmed all over Bradford.
I forget who it was that made the break yesterday, might have been Noon, but they got over the gain line and turned the ball back on the floor but none of our back row were anywhere near him and the French simply walked through and stole possession.
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