Fixtures up till February

catcherintherye · November 23, 2018

Lanolin said:
Yes, i'm not trying to say we've been poor or lucky or anything, I'm just saying I think some people are getting a little overexcited just at the moment. We've played well away at the top teams before and suggesting otherwise is dreadful revisionism. Moyes's record at the old top 4 was awful but there were many, many times where we came away feeling hard done by that we didn't win either because of a late goal, a poor refereeing decision or whatever, and obviously we actually did win at the likes of City and Spurs. Same under Martinez and even Koeman. If we carry on like this for the next 5 or 6 games i'll start to get excited, but it's a little bit early to tell just how far we've come yet.

You've taken the 22 points thing a little bit out of context too. I was suggesting that was pretty much the most I could see us getting, and if we do then Arsenal in 5th would only need to get 17 points from 12 games to stay ahead of us. As they've got 24 points from their first 12 you'd have to assume they would manage that quite easily, and so we would be looking at being around 7th like I said.

I agree we've had poor decisions before. Do you think we've played with the intent, composure and confidence that has been displayed regularly under Moyes away from home v the top 4 though mate? (I fully accept Goodison is a different matter).

Fair point on the 22. Personally I think we have been robbed of 3 points this season (2 at Wolves and 1 at United). Bournemouth Richarlinsons stupidity cost us a further 2. It's rare to have 2 red cards, in the opening 3 games in red hot conditions. In a more typical season we'd have probably had 22-24 points which I would argue is a fairer reflection of our performances.

I am trying not to go overboard either, and a fair bit of this is influenced by the rubbish we've seen over the last 3-4 years, but we look in a good place to me. We've tightened up at the back and have lots of threat going the other way. I fancy us to kick on. However saying and doing are different things.

I think we will learn a lot about this team an Anfield really. If we can turn up there with a good performance and hopefully result that will be very telling to me. It would be instructive of a side who is able to put the poor memories of yesteryear well behind them. I'm really looking forward to it!

catcherintherye · November 23, 2018

Lanolin said:
I think that is being biased really though. You certainly couldn't say we didn't deserve more at Bournemouth or Wolves, but they weren't exactly daylight robbery. I would imagine their fans also think that they could have won those games, which suggests a draw was probably fair. By the same token Palace would argue that they were unlucky against us at home, and even Fulham would probably think if they hadn't hit the bar and had gone in 1-0 up at half time they'd have been in with a shout of getting something.

Personally I think the points we have at the moment are a pretty good reflection of our performances. I agree that we look capable of putting a good run together, but I have to say I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we had a bit of a bad run either. Either way, anything above 7th this season would be a fantastic effort I think.

I would say Wolves was daylight robbery mate. Even if you say it's a red card, the free kick is moved forward a critical distance which prevents our keeper stopping it. Had we got 2 goals in front they don't come back from that. Had the referee kept Jags on (as he would do 80%) of the time I suspect we win at a canter by 3-4 goals.

Bournemouth I agree. That game is entirely on Richarlinson.

What's reasonable to say though, is it is highly unusual to have 2 straight reds in the first 3 games. It might not be bad luck, but it's a freakish occurrence. I think to some extent that has slightly distorted our start to the season and played down how well we have been playing.

Lanolin · November 23, 2018

catcherintherye said:
I agree we've had poor decisions before. Do you think we've played with the intent, composure and confidence that has been displayed regularly under Moyes away from home v the top 4 though mate? (I fully accept Goodison is a different matter).

Fair point on the 22. Personally I think we have been robbed of 3 points this season (2 at Wolves and 1 at United). Bournemouth Richarlinsons stupidity cost us a further 2. It's rare to have 2 red cards, in the opening 3 games in red hot conditions. In a more typical season we'd have probably had 22-24 points which I would argue is a fairer reflection of our performances.

I am trying not to go overboard either, and a fair bit of this is influenced by the rubbish we've seen over the last 3-4 years, but we look in a good place to me. We've tightened up at the back and have lots of threat going the other way. I fancy us to kick on. However saying and doing are different things.

I think we will learn a lot about this team an Anfield really. If we can turn up there with a good performance and hopefully result that will be very telling to me. It would be instructive of a side who is able to put the poor memories of yesteryear well behind them. I'm really looking forward to it!

No I don't, but as I said we can't really claim to have done it 'regularly' this season either, because we're only 12 games in. That's the only point i'm making really, i'm not trying to say this hasn't been an impressive start to the season because it definitely has, but we've looked good in patches before, and found them to be false dawns.

I'm just taking one game at a time for now and trying to be level headed about it. I thought we looked composed and organised away at City at the start of last season and if you look at the comments on here after that there were loads of people saying we were unlucky not to win and calling it a great performance. Two months later we got hammered by Southampton and people were convinced we were going down. As I said, if we're still winning at home and can pick up points at places like Anfield and the Etihad then i'll be going into Christmas as giddy as anyone, i'm just not entirely convinced that's going to happen based on what I've seen so far, so i'm not getting carried away.

Lanolin · November 23, 2018

catcherintherye said:
I would say Wolves was daylight robbery mate. Even if you say it's a red card, the free kick is moved forward a critical distance which prevents our keeper stopping it. Had we got 2 goals in front they don't come back from that. Had the referee kept Jags on (as he would do 80%) of the time I suspect we win at a canter by 3-4 goals.

Bournemouth I agree. That game is entirely on Richarlinson.

What's reasonable to say though, is it is highly unusual to have 2 straight reds in the first 3 games. It might not be bad luck, but it's a freakish occurrence. I think to some extent that has slightly distorted our start to the season and played down how well we have been playing.

I'm in my 30s and reckon I could probably count the number of away games we've won by 4 goals in my time as a fan on one hand. To suggest we were on our way to doing it because we were 1-0 up after 45 minutes, against a team that's only conceded 11 goals in their next 11 games - having played 5 teams currently above us - just confirms to me that we're not really being very realistic in our assessment of where we are right now.

Cels · November 23, 2018

We'll have a woeful December. I'm ignoring the Liverpool game because deep down we all know they'll beat us. Looking at the Man City, Tottenham, Burnley, and Brighton games... I see us picking up just one point from a possible twelve. Merry Christmas :pint2: