Doing it like Barca

[billycopper]

Given that we have no money, it's imperative that we develop our own players. It set me thinking about how we could emulate Barca's system.

Taking their starting XI:

Valdes (youth)
Alves (40m euro)
Pique (5m euro)
Puyol (youth)
Abidal (15m euro)
Xavi (youth)
Iniesta (youth)
Busquets (youth)
Messi (youth)
Villa (40m euro)
Pedro (youth)

Total 100m euro= £85.5m

Compare that to our own side:

Howard (£3m)
Neville (£3.5m)
Jagielka (£4m)
Distin (£5m)
Baines (£6m)
Fellaini (£15m)
Coleman (£0.06m)
Arteta (£2.5m)
Bily (£9m)
Beckford (Free)
Saha (Nominal)

Total £48.06m

Fair enough, David Villa cost them around £30m (which they more or less recouped from selling Ibrahimovic), but do they really need 55m euro worth of fullbacks? Without them, their team cost a comparative pittance. Proving that you can do it without money.

Why can't we build a similarly strong lineup on a meagre budget? Rodwell and Rooney are the closest we have to Xavi and Iniesta in terms of home grown talent. There have been others coming through the academy system. Did we nurture John Paul Kissock and Jose Baxter correctly? Are Vaughan and Anichebe that much worse than Bojan and Jeffren?

As for our scouting network, we've done exceptionally well with Coleman. How will Mustafi, Gueye and Silva fare?

Rather than harping on about money that we don't have and aren't likely to have, maybe we need to quietly go about things in another way? Wenger apparently needs to sell something like £14m of talent every year to pay for the Emirates. He doesn't have the funds to match City, Chelsea or United, but you don't hear him complaining.

It's a bit like a single mum on benefits moaning that she doesn't have a nice, new car like next door. Do we really need a striker or do we need to do better with what's at our disposal?

 

[Alio]

Given that we have no money, it's imperative that we develop our own players. It set me thinking about how we could emulate Barca's system.

Taking their starting XI:

Valdes (youth)
Alves (40m euro)
Pique (5m euro)
Puyol (youth)
Abidal (15m euro)
Xavi (youth)
Iniesta (youth)
Busquets (youth)
Messi (youth)
Villa (40m euro)
Pedro (youth)

Total 100m euro= £85.5m

Compare that to our own side:

Howard (£3m)
Neville (£3.5m)
Jagielka (£4m)
Distin (£5m)
Baines (£6m)
Fellaini (£15m)
Coleman (£0.06m)
Arteta (£2.5m)
Bily (£9m)
Beckford (Free)
Saha (Nominal)

Total £48.06m

Fair enough, David Villa cost them around £30m (which they more or less recouped from selling Ibrahimovic), but do they really need 55m euro worth of fullbacks? Without them, their team cost a comparative pittance. Proving that you can do it without money.

Why can't we build a similarly strong lineup on a meagre budget? Rodwell and Rooney are the closest we have to Xavi and Iniesta in terms of home grown talent. There have been others coming through the academy system. Did we nurture John Paul Kissock and Jose Baxter correctly? Are Vaughan and Anichebe that much worse than Bojan and Jeffren?

As for our scouting network, we've done exceptionally well with Coleman. How will Mustafi, Gueye and Silva fare?

Rather than harping on about money that we don't have and aren't likely to have, maybe we need to quietly go about things in another way? Wenger apparently needs to sell something like £14m of talent every year to pay for the Emirates. He doesn't have the funds to match City, Chelsea or United, but you don't hear him complaining.

It's a bit like a single mum on benefits moaning that she doesn't have a nice, new car like next door. Do we really need a striker or do we need to do better with what's at our disposal?

Plan A is this

Whilst Plan B is waiting for Bill to cough up for a new striker etc

I'm a massive fan of getting the youth team out, and giving them a go. There's still time for Baxter, Gueye, Silva, Barkley etc, hell even Rodwell, from reading some posts, which makes him look like he's already finished here. Beckham wasn't up and going in the first team til he was 21/22 I think

There's more to it than just producing the right players though. If Barca had our squad, they would be winning the league right now with it. Same as Man Utd, give them Villa's team for example, they would be challenging for the title right now

But what is that "X" factor type thing that they have, winning mentality? Or just coaching, which is what we need to get hold of too?

 

[billycopper]

Plan A is this

Whilst Plan B is waiting for Bill to cough up for a new striker etc

I'm a massive fan of getting the youth team out, and giving them a go. There's still time for Baxter, Gueye, Silva, Barkley etc, hell even Rodwell, from reading some posts, which makes him look like he's already finished here. Beckham wasn't up and going in the first team til he was 21/22 I think

There's more to it than just producing the right players though. If Barca had our squad, they would be winning the league right now with it. Same as Man Utd, give them Villa's team for example, they would be challenging for the title right now

But what is that "X" factor type thing that they have, winning mentality? Or just coaching, which is what we need to get hold of too?

I know that our league set up differs to Spain because we don't have Everton B etc, but what's to stop us? United used to send their kids to Antwerp, and Charlton seem to have an arrangement in place to be a feeder club for Liverpool. I'm sure that there are FA rules and that finances play a part, but I don't think it's been fully explored. When we send players on loan it could be to just one club, such as Alan Irvine's Sheffield Wednesday, so that they get the opportunity to play and train together and we have more control over the way in which they're being coached.

In my opinion Baxter and Duffy in particular have outgrown the reserves now. They need to be gaining first team experience. Do we send less players out on loan than Arsenal and United because we don't receive requests for our players or because we block them moving? If it's the former, we need to be more proactive about finding them placements at other clubs. Look what it's done for Wellbeck, Mame Diouf, Cleverley, Wilshire and Lansbury.

You're right, it is also about having a positive attitude. Arsenal and United get up and down the pitch much more than we do, their movement is better and they're more confident on the ball. The majority of the time we commit just one player into the opposition penalty area, whereas it can be as many as six for the big guns. We did it ourselves against United and reaped our rewards. We have the players and the infrastructure at the club to do very well. We possibly don't take advantage of it as well as we could.

 

[Ezekiel]

used to be ajax before barca. don't think we are doing too badly.

 

[billycopper]

used to be ajax before barca. don't think we are doing too badly.

I'm not sure if it's desperation, but the current crop of kids seem to be getting talked up more than any generation I can remember. My concern is that we leave them in squad limbo for so long that they become a bit 'overcooked'. I don't want to see Baxter on the bench every week if he doesn't have a cat in hells chance of getting on. It must be very frustrating and demoralising for players like Jose, Gueye, Duffy, Turner and Wallace.

 

[Alio]

I know that our league set up differs to Spain because we don't have Everton B etc, but what's to stop us? United used to send their kids to Antwerp, and Charlton seem to have an arrangement in place to be a feeder club for Liverpool. I'm sure that there are FA rules and that finances play a part, but I don't think it's been fully explored. When we send players on loan it could be to just one club, such as Alan Irvine's Sheffield Wednesday, so that they get the opportunity to play and train together and we have more control over the way in which they're being coached.

In my opinion Baxter and Duffy in particular have outgrown the reserves now. They need to be gaining first team experience. Do we send less players out on loan than Arsenal and United because we don't receive requests for our players or because we block them moving? If it's the former, we need to be more proactive about finding them placements at other clubs. Look what it's done for Wellbeck, Mame Diouf, Cleverley, Wilshire and Lansbury.

You're right, it is also about having a positive attitude. Arsenal and United get up and down the pitch much more than we do, their movement is better and they're more confident on the ball. The majority of the time we commit just one player into the opposition penalty area, whereas it can be as many as six for the big guns. We did it ourselves against United and reaped our rewards. We have the players and the infrastructure at the club to do very well. We possibly don't take advantage of it as well as we could.

With you on the loan thing....

I'm playing FM11 now for example.....I send all my kids out on loan, and keep asking the board for more link ups. I want my kids playing for Bury week in week out, rather than my under 18's or reserves

I'd like to see our players go out on loan more frequently

 

[davek]

Given that we have no money, it's imperative that we develop our own players. It set me thinking about how we could emulate Barca's system.

Taking their starting XI:

Valdes (youth)
Alves (40m euro)
Pique (5m euro)
Puyol (youth)
Abidal (15m euro)
Xavi (youth)
Iniesta (youth)
Busquets (youth)
Messi (youth)
Villa (40m euro)
Pedro (youth)

Total 100m euro= £85.5m

Compare that to our own side:

Howard (£3m)
Neville (£3.5m)
Jagielka (£4m)
Distin (£5m)
Baines (£6m)
Fellaini (£15m)
Coleman (£0.06m)
Arteta (£2.5m)
Bily (£9m)
Beckford (Free)
Saha (Nominal)

Total £48.06m

Fair enough, David Villa cost them around £30m (which they more or less recouped from selling Ibrahimovic), but do they really need 55m euro worth of fullbacks? Without them, their team cost a comparative pittance. Proving that you can do it without money.

Why can't we build a similarly strong lineup on a meagre budget? Rodwell and Rooney are the closest we have to Xavi and Iniesta in terms of home grown talent. There have been others coming through the academy system. Did we nurture John Paul Kissock and Jose Baxter correctly? Are Vaughan and Anichebe that much worse than Bojan and Jeffren?

As for our scouting network, we've done exceptionally well with Coleman. How will Mustafi, Gueye and Silva fare?

Rather than harping on about money that we don't have and aren't likely to have, maybe we need to quietly go about things in another way? Wenger apparently needs to sell something like £14m of talent every year to pay for the Emirates. He doesn't have the funds to match City, Chelsea or United, but you don't hear him complaining.

It's a bit like a single mum on benefits moaning that she doesn't have a nice, new car like next door. Do we really need a striker or do we need to do better with what's at our disposal?

Because at the first hint of a financial shortfall they'd be sold off.

This is the Everton Way.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

The tools are there with Finch Farm now for youth to develop. The north west has so many teams that are all trying to sign the best young lads up as early as possible though.

 

[billycopper]

With you on the loan thing....

I'm playing FM11 now for example.....I send all my kids out on loan, and keep asking the board for more link ups. I want my kids playing for Bury week in week out, rather than my under 18's or reserves

I'd like to see our players go out on loan more frequently

Credit where it's due, in some ways it seems like we're using our initiative. Partner clubs across the globe sounds promising, even if it is only a PR exercise. The profile that we've created in Thailand is also another positive. Maybe the returns are long term? It does seem that they're not as fruitful as they could be though. For example, if some Thai whizz kid came through, I'm not so sure that we'd be in any better position to sign them up than one of Europe's big guns.

 

[Cena]

English kids don't get the same quality coaching as those is Spain unfortunatly, so doing it like Barca would be out of the question.

If your 6ft when you 14, your in coz of your size in England, they get picked over the technically talented 14 year old who is 5ft 7''.

That is why i don't think it can be achieved. And before people tell me i'm being too pessimistic, i've experienced it first hand and also - why do you think England have never produced a Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo etc?

 

[billycopper]

The tools are there with Finch Farm now for youth to develop. The north west has so many teams that are all trying to sign the best young lads up as early as possible though.

Under Rafael, the RS didn't have a youth system. That was our opportunity to hoover up the best young talent on Merseyside and find the next Gerrard, Owen, McManaman etc. We're doing alright, but we could always do better.

 

[billycopper]

English kids don't get the same quality coaching as those is Spain unfortunatly, so doing it like Barca would be out of the question.

If your 6ft when you 14, your in coz of your size in England, they get picked over the technically talented 14 year old who is 5ft 7''.

That is why i don't think it can be achieved. And before people tell me i'm being too pessimistic, i've experienced it first hand and also - why do you think England have never produced a Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo etc?

I think that attempts are being made. We have the 'Everton Way' and there's a shift in emphasis in youth coaching away from focussing on competition. It will take a long time for the culture shift to happen though.

You could say that England had Gazza, Rooney and Gerrard. We are capable of producing technically gifted players. The problem in this country is that we hammer someone for trying to play their way out of trouble rather than taking the safety first option. We amount of fear and pressure that we place on players is stifling.

 

[Alio]

English kids don't get the same quality coaching as those is Spain unfortunatly, so doing it like Barca would be out of the question.

If your 6ft when you 14, your in coz of your size in England, they get picked over the technically talented 14 year old who is 5ft 7''.

That is why i don't think it can be achieved. And before people tell me i'm being too pessimistic, i've experienced it first hand and also - why do you think England have never produced a Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo etc?

That is very true bro, I used to play basketball as a teen, I was the only one in School who actually played it and liked it. Everyone else was just 6ft and told to play.

 

[billycopper]

Because at the first hint of a financial shortfall they'd be sold off.

This is the Everton Way.

If we focussed on developing players rather than buying the finished article we wouldn't be so financially hard-pressed. If, each year, we bring through 16 academy products and only two make it, selling the others on would help to finance the development of future prospects. How many former United trainees are there knocking about? Even at a couple of hundred grand a time, it's all funds for our coaching facilities.

 

[chicoazul]

I think everyone is aspiring to have a youth system like that to be honest.