David Moyes and Frontmen

Thorny · October 21, 2011

I don't think David Moyes is a bad manager, but don't think he is great either...Just a good manager.

Apart from substitutions and tactics in-game, his other major flaw is his management and handling of strikers...

During his stint we have seen him buy:

McFadden
Bent
Beattie
Johnson
Yakubu
Saha
Beckford
Vellios
Stracqualursi
McFadden

On loan he's had McBride, Jeffers and Jo. From the academy he's had Rooney, Vaughan and Anichebe.

As well as others such as Ferguson and Radzinski...

What prevents him from being a great manager is his failure to make the best out of the strike options available to him. Strikers under him also seem to end up being unhappy and then sold off.

Apart from Saha and Anichebe, he has a lower tolerance for strikers that arent performing. He doesnt seem to have an empathy with strikers.

Moyes has the ability to get bargain buys, ie Cahill, Arteta, Coleman, Jags, Lescott, Baines etc...However, when it comes to Strikers, he doesnt have the same ability.
Beattie, Johnson, Yakubu were all club record buys.

He is defense minded which shows. He has a good eye for defenders and most midfielders, but the more attack minded a player is the harder it is for Moyes. It doesn't help when is assistant (Steve Round) is also defense minded.

He has surrounded himself with coaches that are ex-defenders and some ex-midfielders...

I believe we were doing better with Irvine as Assistant (an ex-winger). So Moyes needs to either improve his management of attacking players or get someone to advise him how to manage them.

Big Dunc is there helping Irvine with the Academy, he might be an option once he gets more coaching experience or maybe Graeme Sharp might be a shout even on a casual basis...

Zatara · October 21, 2011

Yakubu would probably have pushed us close to the top 4 if he hadnt had a shocking injury.....OR he would have been sold on and a replacement found for good money.

Johnson loved his time at Everton but became homesick for london...

Bent was unhappy as we tried to upgrade on him.

Velios is a kid....

Strac is probably still finding his feet in the country,

bluenorthwarrior · October 21, 2011

I think it's fundamentally very simple - if you adopt a 1 up front approach you are only ever going to be able to keep 1 or max 2 genuine first team quality strikers happy. As soon as somebody like Yakubu is not regularly involved and can see no route back they will want to move on. COntrast with someone like Spurs who had 4 international first team strikers vying for 2 slots last year - there is more likelihood of getting game time in this scenario than in a 1 up front team as there is usually one clear favourite that will generally always play (Saha when fit in our case).

This combined with no real likelihood of challenging for top 4 etc would make any striker want to move on and get on with their careers actually on the pitch, even if it is at somewhere like Blackburn - at least it's premier league time and goals to be scored.

davek · October 21, 2011

Thorny said:
Big Dunc is there helping Irvine with the Academy, he might be an option once he gets more coaching experience or maybe Graeme Sharp might be a shout even on a casual basis...

In truth his role is very minor. He's being allowed to watch other people work in an effort to take his B coach badge.

Agree 100% about the forward situation. His record is appalling. It's as if he's always thought "I've got Tim here. I can always do without or play someone just decent enough ahead of him".

Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian · October 21, 2011

Has Sharp got any coaching experience ? I'm thinking he wouldn't have done the work he has since finishing playing if he had coaching experience.

SteveSC · October 21, 2011

I'm confused is it moyes fault or is it that none of the formentioned could finish?

You start out saying Moyes does not know how to deal with them and finish saying that maybe Dunc or Sharp can help as a striking coach?

Sounds to me the issue like Davek and bluenorthwarrior mentioned he either likes playing cahill up top or another one of the strikers alone.

What effect could big dunc or sharp have on bad tactics?

Sheedy's Third · October 21, 2011

Another day another negative post from our resident Eeyore Davek.
Poppycock! He can´t score for them can he?Half the time on here people are screaming for strikers to be dropped. Yak was never the same after his injury .Beckford wasn´t good enough ,Beattie well enough said ,Bent !Ha! Saha will score if he stays fit and Velios will come good to.

kenada_blue · October 21, 2011

His ideal striker would be Carlos tevez or Rooney....a striker that tackles, defends, passes, and scores 20 a season.

Hell never ever get that player so hell never be happy with the strikers hes got or had

davek · October 21, 2011

Forwards working the channels - that'll be the abiding memory of Moyes and attackers when we look back on his time at the club. Partly because he's never ever sorted out any strategy to play out and out wide players. He's basically wasted a lot of money asking them to become jack of all trades.

MoreCows · October 21, 2011

Part of the reason is that Tim Cahill is a difficult strike partner. He creates virtually nil chances for whoever he's with.

Therefore the better strikers have been the ones prepared to do the donkey work in the channels. eg Bent, Johnson and Yak. Beattie and Saha have been rubbish with Tim. I think I'm right in saying Saha has never scored when partnered with Tim. The goals he scored in 09/10 was when we had an injury crisis and Cahill was in central midfield.

Either we need to find a hard working striker like Marcus Bent and go back to the way we used to play, or we need to move Cahill on.

Or alternatively make Tim the out and out striker and have a fluid, pacey midfield supporting him.

Rugby Toffee · October 21, 2011

MoreCows said:
Part of the reason is that Tim Cahill is a difficult strike partner. He creates virtually nil chances for whoever he's with.

Therefore the better strikers have been the ones prepared to do the donkey work in the channels. eg Bent, Johnson and Yak. Beattie and Saha have been rubbish with Tim. I think I'm right in saying Saha has never scored when partnered with Tim. The goals he scored in 09/10 was when we had an injury crisis and Cahill was in central midfield.

Either we need to find a hard working striker like Marcus Bent and go back to the way we used to play, or we need to move Cahill on.

Or alternatively make Tim the out and out striker and have a fluid, pacey midfield supporting him.

That is part of the reason. No pace and a one dimesional midfield.

kenada_blue · October 21, 2011

I remember last season when we saw beckford saha as a forward two and it looked sexual ...

Sadly that was only played in 2 games all season

Fassbasstd · October 21, 2011

I think Tim will leave Everton soon. He's in his 30's, his bezzy (Mikel) has gone, he's an Aussie to the core and wants to come home. He is bigger than Harry (the c-nt) Kewell and borin' Bret Emerton here in Oz.
His football career (not just playing) will last for yonks here. He desperatley wants to play for Australia in Brazil.
All this points to returning home.

As for Moyes and strikers, only Big Dunc's personality stopped him from having the forward in him coached out. The rest, all listed in previous posts, where drained of their attacking and scoring capabilities.

All of which means that Moyes and strikers don't mix.

Ten years is enough (for me anyway). A ex striker or attack minded midfielder as a new manager is what we need.

Christiffa25 · October 21, 2011

Ok, spurs have had the same problem with unhappy strikers since vdv came in. Pav and defeo are always moaning crouch has gone and adabayor is now there first choice with vdv off him.

Let's look at utd's current strikers.
Rooney - 30m berbatov - 30M chicco 8M (as a unknown)

City's
Tevez -20M+ auguro - 35M dzeko 30M ish balotelli ???

Come on guys I'm sure if moyes had money at will over the years and could of gone out and bought strikers for 20M a time this thread would not even exist!

kev101 · October 21, 2011

Zatara said:
Yakubu would probably have pushed us close to the top 4 if he hadnt had a shocking injury.....OR he would have been sold on and a replacement found for good money.

Johnson loved his time at Everton but became homesick for london...

Bent was unhappy as we tried to upgrade on him.

Velios is a kid....

Strac is probably still finding his feet in the country,

Ten years man!