Can we play 3-5-2 in every game yet?

[ryanbeno80]

My twitter timeline was full of people calling for 3-5-2 after the Boro game, which I've seen more and more of over recent weeks, it seems a lot of people would want to play this formation in every game. Whilst at times we have looked brilliant under this formation, there have also been times when it hasn't worked. All in all I don't feel we are ready to play this formation week in week out.

Stoke 1st half we looked extremely vulnerable to quick long balls into crouch with untracked runners off him, they created a number of clear cut chances and if it wasn't for Joel we could have been 3 or 4 goals down at half time. Makes you think what might have happened with Negredo knocking it down to Traore at the weekend?

If you look at the successful 3-5-2 teams, the CB's are all mobile, win almost everything in the air, solid tacklers, comfortable on the ball and most importantly have impeccable positioning and concentration. Offensively they have pacey wingbacks energetic who are a threat going forward and can also get back to cover the CB's.

If you look at what we've got in terms of qualities required 3-5-2..

Williams: Not the most mobile, doesn't win enough in the air against big forwards, solid enough tackler, not comfortable on the ball, good positioning but on occasions can switch off.

Holgate: Athlete, good in the air, solid tackler, comfortable on the ball, positioning and concentration aren't there yet (but that isn't expected at his age).

Mori: Mobile enough, good in the air when concentrating, decent enough tackler, a lot better on the ball than Williams, positioning is poor and often switches off.

Coleman: Perfect fit for 3-5-2

Baines: Solid enough defensively with good positioning, but not the force he was going forward and now adds relatively little compared to Coleman offensively.

You can never expect to have 3 CB's who all posses the qualities listed above, unless you are Juve. Looking at those qualities though in CB position we are mobile enough but are not good enough in the air and struggle against big forwards, solid enough tacklers but overall the positioning and concentration isn't good enough which showed in the 1st half against stoke.

At the bare minimum we require a quality CB who is solid, wins all in the air and has great positioning to replace Mori before we can convert to this formation full time. Holgate will develop into a perfect fit and next to experienced CB's is ready to play in a 3-5-2 now. Williams has looked poor at times but next to Holgate and a new quality CB would raise his game but beyond 2017/18 he needs to be replaced. We would also need a new left back, maybe not this summer but definitely after next season to become a force under 3-5-2.

IMO we are not ready to play 3-5-2 all the time, too many vulnerabilities and teams would figure out how to hurt us quickly. Better suited against the better sides who are less direct, keep it on the floor and leave space behind for the wing backs to break into.

 

[Mountfield1985]

It's far and away our best formation. Brings width into our attacking play with Baines and Coleman. Gives you extra insurance at the back. Means Williams is on the ball less and we retain possession better. We have pace in defence. Holgate and Mori can drop seemlessly into full back positions when needed. Suits Barkley perfectly. Means we get more players around Lukaku.

Yes there are ways to exploit it, just like Stoke did. But that's true of every system. I think we look far more vulnerable with 4 at the back and far less comfortable on the ball.

And if you start with 3-5-2, you always have the option of going to a 4 with Coleman on the wing and Holgate at right back. Which we did away to Leicester and went on to win the game.

 

[beachy]

3-5-2 seems to suit our squad at the moment. But I think Koeman likes to play 4 at the back when the opponent only has 1 striker.

So expect to see ongoing formation changes depending on who we're playing.

 

[MikeH72]

Forever and ever, amen.

 

[tommye]

No.

 

[MikeH72]

My twitter timeline was full of people calling for 3-5-2 after the Boro game, which I've seen more and more of over recent weeks, it seems a lot of people would want to play this formation in every game. Whilst at times we have looked brilliant under this formation, there have also been times when it hasn't worked. All in all I don't feel we are ready to play this formation week in week out.

Stoke 1st half we looked extremely vulnerable to quick long balls into crouch with untracked runners off him, they created a number of clear cut chances and if it wasn't for Joel we could have been 3 or 4 goals down at half time. Makes you think what might have happened with Negredo knocking it down to Traore at the weekend?

If you look at the successful 3-5-2 teams, the CB's are all mobile, win almost everything in the air, solid tacklers, comfortable on the ball and most importantly have impeccable positioning and concentration. Offensively they have pacey wingbacks energetic who are a threat going forward and can also get back to cover the CB's.

If you look at what we've got in terms of qualities required 3-5-2..

Williams: Not the most mobile, doesn't win enough in the air against big forwards, solid enough tackler, not comfortable on the ball, good positioning but on occasions can switch off.

Holgate: Athlete, good in the air, solid tackler, comfortable on the ball, positioning and concentration aren't there yet (but that isn't expected at his age).

Mori: Mobile enough, good in the air when concentrating, decent enough tackler, a lot better on the ball than Williams, positioning is poor and often switches off.

Coleman: Perfect fit for 3-5-2

Baines: Solid enough defensively with good positioning, but not the force he was going forward and now adds relatively little compared to Coleman offensively.

You can never expect to have 3 CB's who all posses the qualities listed above, unless you are Juve. Looking at those qualities though in CB position we are mobile enough but are not good enough in the air and struggle against big forwards, solid enough tacklers but overall the positioning and concentration isn't good enough which showed in the 1st half against stoke.

At the bare minimum we require a quality CB who is solid, wins all in the air and has great positioning to replace Mori before we can convert to this formation full time. Holgate will develop into a perfect fit and next to experienced CB's is ready to play in a 3-5-2 now. Williams has looked poor at times but next to Holgate and a new quality CB would raise his game but beyond 2017/18 he needs to be replaced. We would also need a new left back, maybe not this summer but definitely after next season to become a force under 3-5-2.

IMO we are not ready to play 3-5-2 all the time, too many vulnerabilities and teams would figure out how to hurt us quickly. Better suited against the better sides who are less direct, keep it on the floor and leave space behind for the wing backs to break into.

This bit is all wrong tbh.

 

[ryanbeno80]

This bit is all wrong tbh.

Fair enough you are a Mori hater, I don't think he's good enough all in all but not as bad as some people make out

 

[MikeH72]

Fair enough you are a Mori hater, I don't think he's good enough all in all but not as bad as some people make out

I've seen enough of him to know he's an absolute embarrassment on the ball, probably worse with the ball at his feet than Jagielka.

 

[Barnfred 55]

3-5-2 seems to suit our squad at the moment. But I think Koeman likes to play 4 at the back when the opponent only has 1 striker.

So expect to see ongoing formation changes depending on who we're playing.

I think 3 at the back suits our current defenders better. Neither Williams or Mori look comfortable in a back 4. It also appears to suit Ross and Rom more too.

I'm not sure how effective it is against teams who park the bus and maybe RK feels the same as he didn't use it at the weekend. Plus it only really allows you to play 2 CMs, so 1, maybe even 2, of our best players are either being left on the bench or played out of position.

I think RK will continue to tinker with the formation, and I think that's probably the correct decision given that he can easily change formation during the game if necessary.

 

[Carlito]

I'm hoping that the shift back to a Christmas Pudding formation is only temporary. Having three centre-backs with Coleman and Baines pushed forward seems to suit everyone.

 

[JonS]

I much prefer it to playing with actual wingers who seem a bit of a luxury (certainly Bolassie and Deulofeu are) for the modern game.

That said I voted only in some games as the Koemann Brothers know best how to counter the opposition and I like the way Koemann changes it back or forth mid match when things aren't working.

 

[Dirty Dutch]

Not when we play against teams who play 433. We saw that in the first half against Stoke.

 

[Seathestars]

Horses for courses

 

[BlueToff]

I've seen enough of him to know he's an absolute embarrassment on the ball, probably worse with the ball at his feet than Jagielka.

When he keeps it simple it's fine. It's the fact he tries to play abar 70 Hollywood passes every game.

Williams needs to stop hoofing it because his long passes resemble the classic Neville dink.

Obvious we need a CB and one will come in the summer.

As it stands, I think three at the back is the way to go with our current personnel though.

Mori - decent enough when the player is in front of him and he has eyes on the ball. But he has no sense of positioning and doesn't have the pace to recover from his mistakes.

Williams - No pace but his positioning is usually spot on. Looks much better in a three though where he has a bit of extra protection.

Holgate - not ready for a two yet IMO. Fine in a three.

But while 3 at the back seems to also sure us up defensively, it adds so much more to our attacking play, simply because it allows Baines and Coleman to push up.

 

[degsy]

My twitter timeline was full of people calling for 3-5-2 after the Boro game, which I've seen more and more of over recent weeks, it seems a lot of people would want to play this formation in every game. Whilst at times we have looked brilliant under this formation, there have also been times when it hasn't worked. All in all I don't feel we are ready to play this formation week in week out.

Stoke 1st half we looked extremely vulnerable to quick long balls into crouch with untracked runners off him, they created a number of clear cut chances and if it wasn't for Joel we could have been 3 or 4 goals down at half time. Makes you think what might have happened with Negredo knocking it down to Traore at the weekend?

If you look at the successful 3-5-2 teams, the CB's are all mobile, win almost everything in the air, solid tacklers, comfortable on the ball and most importantly have impeccable positioning and concentration. Offensively they have pacey wingbacks energetic who are a threat going forward and can also get back to cover the CB's.

If you look at what we've got in terms of qualities required 3-5-2..

Williams: Not the most mobile, doesn't win enough in the air against big forwards, solid enough tackler, not comfortable on the ball, good positioning but on occasions can switch off.

Holgate: Athlete, good in the air, solid tackler, comfortable on the ball, positioning and concentration aren't there yet (but that isn't expected at his age).

Mori: Mobile enough, good in the air when concentrating, decent enough tackler, a lot better on the ball than Williams, positioning is poor and often switches off.

Coleman: Perfect fit for 3-5-2

Baines: Solid enough defensively with good positioning, but not the force he was going forward and now adds relatively little compared to Coleman offensively.

You can never expect to have 3 CB's who all posses the qualities listed above, unless you are Juve. Looking at those qualities though in CB position we are mobile enough but are not good enough in the air and struggle against big forwards, solid enough tacklers but overall the positioning and concentration isn't good enough which showed in the 1st half against stoke.

At the bare minimum we require a quality CB who is solid, wins all in the air and has great positioning to replace Mori before we can convert to this formation full time. Holgate will develop into a perfect fit and next to experienced CB's is ready to play in a 3-5-2 now. Williams has looked poor at times but next to Holgate and a new quality CB would raise his game but beyond 2017/18 he needs to be replaced. We would also need a new left back, maybe not this summer but definitely after next season to become a force under 3-5-2.

IMO we are not ready to play 3-5-2 all the time, too many vulnerabilities and teams would figure out how to hurt us quickly. Better suited against the better sides who are less direct, keep it on the floor and leave space behind for the wing backs to break into.

You learn by doing, thus Holgate will get better the more he plays 3 at the back
The team will be more rounded if they learn to play both 3 or 4 at the back for different games
You never know they might get that competent that they can switch between as the game requires.