Can we draw lessons from the equally soul destroying season of 2003/04?

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davek

Player Valuation: £150m
Without a shadow of a doubt, for me this season has cratered us as a football organisation. We may be 9th and not far off a 7th spot but the feeling of frustration and anger, turning now to the bitter acceptance of our fate as also rans in the grand scheme of things, are the dominant emotions. For different reasons I'd liken it to the mood of sullen resentment at the club when we finished 17th in 2003/04 - another season that had followed on the back of a reasonably hopeful one.

2003/04: the football had turned to the dire semi-agricultural football that was to become Moyes' stamp (after a first season which promised a bit more when he got a lot of industry from the team and married it to some exciting counter attacking through Radzinski and, of course, we had Rooney to get us to the edge of our seats). We absolutely stunk the place out and finished just short of relegation and out of the cups at the first round of entering. Off the field we were in turmoil: the Kings Dock stadium had been kicked into touch by Kenwright and Carter and a boardroom battle was in full swing. What had promised to be a new dawn under the post-Johnson regime had turned to ashes.

2017/18: similarly we see a club onfield that lost all discipline - and that has been mirrored in the number of managers we've used. The football quite frankly is the worst in most people's living memory. We have lost all identity as a football club and have become a bit of a joke as our credibility has ebbed away by spending huge amounts of cash to somehow become worse. The image of the club is in the gutter. We have a manager who most dont want and a squad almost all of us have lost faith in. Off the field we also have a crisis, as underperforming officials from a previous era remain in their posts and we have an owner who goes from one public relations calamity to another. Worst of all is the (very) uncertain situation concerning the proposed BMD.


Of course, 2003/04 proved to be something of a turning point: yes the football thereafter was dull and safe, but we reached some sort of stability by abandoning all pretence to being able to compete at the top of the PL and by focussing instead on becoming a tough team to beat; and off the pitch a situation was accepted that they couldn't or wouldn't shift the dial and that a policy of sell to buy and settling debt would and could be carried out for the foreseeable and a plate kept spinning until something better, more ambitious, came along...either a new stadium scheme or a buy-out.

Will 2017/18 prove to be a turning point for us? We're obviously in a different position than back in the early part of the millennium in terms of cash to spend, but like then we still find ourselves very much on the outside of things looking in and in need of a severe shift in policy. In that respect, two things need to happen in quick succession for us to avoid having to make the sordid compromise described above in the early part of this century. First, this summer a new managerial team needs to be brought in capable of exciting the support and who are given a job of using available cash, but also utilising and building a team around the younger players of our squad like Davies, Kenny, Dowell and hopefully Lookman. Attractive football and winning football should be the new manager's objective and he should be allowed to build (slowly and haltingly if need be) for the next five years - as long as we're in no imminent danger. Second, away from team coaching we need to see a start made on the stadium. At a minimum, funding needs to be acquired and planning permission needs to be secured before the year is out, along with squaring off any sort of opposition that could arise from building this stadium by other agencies. Construction has to have a firm date to start in 2019. If we cant get to that point by the end of this calendar year, not only is BMD dead but so too is the Moshiri era at the club. There'll be no toleration for anyone who cant deliver after being three years into a job here. We need these two shots in the arm desperately.

More precisely, I suppose, the years following the disastrous 2003/04 campaign were a line drawn in the sand which provided the basis to become a more credible (though not a really competitive) force rather than a watershed; what we need now are the building blocks to be put in place to allow us not only to consolidate in the short term, but to provide us with the means to push into the top five of this league in the way that Spurs have done under Pochettino-Levy/Lewis. It's a massive 11 months in front of us.


TLDR etc....
 
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If anyone in the boardroom at Everton is thinking like this then we really do have no hope. 03/04 was the nadir of a pattern in the premier league that had seen us circling the drain. Moyes came in and embarked upon a decade of hard slog, completely revamping the squad and infrastructure from a mid 90s basket case to a top 6/7 modern day premier league side. When he had finished we had one of the best scouting networks on the league, one of the best academies, a top training facility, and a squad of internationals settled in the top 8 of the prem.

If someone on Everton’s board turns round and says we’re just as far behind now as we were in 03/04 then we all may as well pack up. The club back then needed everything changing. I’m hoping that at the moment it’s onky the manager and first team squad along with Walsh that needs punting.
 
If anyone in the boardroom at Everton is thinking like this then we really do have no hope. 03/04 was the nadir of a pattern in the premier league that had seen us circling the drain. Moyes came in and embarked upon a decade of hard slog, completely revamping the squad and infrastructure from a mid 90s basket case to a top 6/7 modern day premier league side. When he had finished we had one of the best scouting networks on the league, one of the best academies, a top training facility, and a squad of internationals settled in the top 8 of the prem.

If someone on Everton’s board turns round and says we’re just as far behind now as we were in 03/04 then we all may as well pack up. The club back then needed everything changing. I’m hoping that at the moment it’s onky the manager and first team squad along with Walsh that needs punting.
That is pretty much where we stand. This is Year Zero.
 
That is pretty much where we stand. This is Year Zero.

I don’t think so. We still have a very good academy. In Pickford Walcott Coleman Siggurdson we have players that 03/04 team could only have dreamed of (young Rooney aside). We are not amongst the worst sides in the league as evidenced by being 9th rather than 17th.

We are at a low point but this is not year zero. In a plan to get Everton from 90s basket case back to the top of the game phase 1 has been done by Moyes, establishing us as outside of the elite. It sure as hell wasnt Kenwright or Elstone who achieved that. We are now having issues with phase 2, joining the elite. So did Spurs until they found Pochettino and Kane arrived. We’ve fallen away from progression in phase 2 since the high point of Martinez Lukaku Stones Barkley Deulofeu in 13/14 but we are not back at the start of phase 1. We’ve been trash this year and are 9th. That just shows that the internal infrastructure of the club is at a certain level which it wasn’t in 03/04.
 

Without a shadow of a doubt, for me this season has cratered us as a football organisation. We may be 9th and not far off a 7th spot but the feeling of frustration and anger, turning now to the bitter acceptance of our fate as also rans in the grand scheme of things, are the dominant emotions. For different reasons I'd liken it to the mood of sullen resentment at the club when we finished 17th in 2003/04 - another season that had followed on the back of a reasonably hopeful one.

2003/04: the football had turned to the dire semi-agricultural football that was to become Moyes' stamp (after a first season which promised a bit more when he got a lot of industry from the team and married it to some exciting counter attacking through Radzinski and, of course, we had Rooney to get us to the edge of our seats). We absolutely stunk the place out and finished just short of relegation and out of the cups at the first round of entering. Off the field we were in turmoil: the Kings Dock stadium had been kicked into touch by Kenwright and Carter and a boardroom battle was in full swing. What had promised to be a new dawn under the post-Johnson regime had turned to ashes.

2017/18: similarly we see a club onfield that lost all discipline - and that has been mirrored in the number of managers we've used. The football quite frankly is the worst in most people's living memory. We have lost all identity as a football club and have become a bit of a joke as our credibility has ebbed away by spending huge amounts of cash to somehow become worse. The image of the club is in the gutter. We have a manager who most dont want and a squad almost all of us have lost faith in. Off the field we also have a crisis, as underperforming officials from a previous era remain in their posts and we have an owner who goes from one public relations calamity to another. Worst of all is the (very) uncertain situation concerning the proposed BMD.


Of course, 2003/04 proved to be something of a turning point: yes the football thereafter was dull and safe, but we reached some sort of stability by abandoning all pretence to being able to compete at the top of the PL and by focussing instead on becoming a tough team to beat; and off the pitch a situation was accepted that they couldn't or wouldn't shift the dial and that a policy of sell to buy and settling debt would and could be carried out for the foreseeable and a plate kept spinning until something better, more ambitious, came along...either a new stadium scheme or a buy-out.

Will 2017/18 prove to be a turning point for us? We're obviously in a different position than back in the early part of the millennium in terms of cash to spend, but like then we still find ourselves very much on the outside of things looking in and in need of a severe shift in policy. In that respect, two things need to happen in quick succession for us to avoid having to make the sordid compromise described above in the early part of this century. First, this summer a new managerial team needs to be brought in capable of exciting the support and who are given a job of using available cash, but also utilising and building a team around the younger players of our squad like Davies, Kenny, Dowell and hopefully Lookman. Attractive football and winning football should be the new manager's objective and he should be allowed to build (slowly and haltingly if need be) for the next five years - as long as we're in no imminent danger. Second, away from team coaching we need to see a start made on the stadium. At a minimum, funding needs to be acquired and planning permission needs to be secured before the year is out, along with squaring off any sort of opposition that could arise from building this stadium by other agencies. Construction has to have a firm date to start in 2019. If we cant get to that point by the end of this calendar year, not only is BMD dead but so too is the Moshiri era at the club. There'll be no toleration for anyone who cant deliver after being three years into a job here. We need these two shots in the arm desperately.

More precisely, I suppose, the years following the disastrous 2003/04 campaign were a line drawn in the sand which provided the basis to become a more credible (though not a really competitive) force rather than a watershed; what we need now are the building blocks to be put in place to allow us not only to consolidate in the short term, but to provide us with the means to push into the top five of this league in the way that Spurs have done under Pochettino-Levy/Lewis. It's a massive 11 months in front of us.


TLDR etc....

Only my thoughts, but Atletico Madrid should be the model for us.

When you know you can`t compete financially, with the likes of Citteh, Man U, Barca, PSG, Real etc, you need to find a way to somehow compete and still be in the running.

A forward thinking and united board.

A " thought about " managerial appointment.

A " thought about " transfer policy.

Play to the teams strengths.

A clear plan how the team is to play.

Unfortunately non of the above has applied to us for a very long time.

Non of this will happen anytime soon, until Kenwright and co are gone.
 
I don’t think so. We still have a very good academy. In Pickford Walcott Coleman Siggurdson we have players that 03/04 team could only have dreamed of (young Rooney aside). We are not amongst the worst sides in the league as evidenced by being 9th rather than 17th.

We are at a low point but this is not year zero. In a plan to get Everton from 90s basket case back to the top of the game phase 1 has been done by Moyes, establishing us as outside of the elite. It sure as hell wasnt Kenwright or Elstone who achieved that. We are now having issues with phase 2, joining the elite. So did Spurs until they found Pochettino and Kane arrived. We’ve fallen away from progression in phase 2 since the high point of Martinez Lukaku Stones Barkley Deulofeu in 13/14 but we are not back at the start of phase 1. We’ve been trash this year and are 9th. That just shows that the internal infrastructure of the club is at a certain level which it wasn’t in 03/04.
Take your point, but it's very deceptive where we are right now - these players are not made of the right stuff, we all know that. And what we have in academy terms is very much down to who they are brought on by and and how they are brought on.

Spurs were a CL qualifying class team before Pochettino tuned up, he just gave them a solid identity. Moyes left us in a state where we were never ever going to break through the glass ceiling. We needed another way and still do.
 

Without a shadow of a doubt, for me this season has cratered us as a football organisation. We may be 9th and not far off a 7th spot but the feeling of frustration and anger, turning now to the bitter acceptance of our fate as also rans in the grand scheme of things, are the dominant emotions. For different reasons I'd liken it to the mood of sullen resentment at the club when we finished 17th in 2003/04 - another season that had followed on the back of a reasonably hopeful one.

2003/04: the football had turned to the dire semi-agricultural football that was to become Moyes' stamp (after a first season which promised a bit more when he got a lot of industry from the team and married it to some exciting counter attacking through Radzinski and, of course, we had Rooney to get us to the edge of our seats). We absolutely stunk the place out and finished just short of relegation and out of the cups at the first round of entering. Off the field we were in turmoil: the Kings Dock stadium had been kicked into touch by Kenwright and Carter and a boardroom battle was in full swing. What had promised to be a new dawn under the post-Johnson regime had turned to ashes.

2017/18: similarly we see a club onfield that lost all discipline - and that has been mirrored in the number of managers we've used. The football quite frankly is the worst in most people's living memory. We have lost all identity as a football club and have become a bit of a joke as our credibility has ebbed away by spending huge amounts of cash to somehow become worse. The image of the club is in the gutter. We have a manager who most dont want and a squad almost all of us have lost faith in. Off the field we also have a crisis, as underperforming officials from a previous era remain in their posts and we have an owner who goes from one public relations calamity to another. Worst of all is the (very) uncertain situation concerning the proposed BMD.


Of course, 2003/04 proved to be something of a turning point: yes the football thereafter was dull and safe, but we reached some sort of stability by abandoning all pretence to being able to compete at the top of the PL and by focussing instead on becoming a tough team to beat; and off the pitch a situation was accepted that they couldn't or wouldn't shift the dial and that a policy of sell to buy and settling debt would and could be carried out for the foreseeable and a plate kept spinning until something better, more ambitious, came along...either a new stadium scheme or a buy-out.

Will 2017/18 prove to be a turning point for us? We're obviously in a different position than back in the early part of the millennium in terms of cash to spend, but like then we still find ourselves very much on the outside of things looking in and in need of a severe shift in policy. In that respect, two things need to happen in quick succession for us to avoid having to make the sordid compromise described above in the early part of this century. First, this summer a new managerial team needs to be brought in capable of exciting the support and who are given a job of using available cash, but also utilising and building a team around the younger players of our squad like Davies, Kenny, Dowell and hopefully Lookman. Attractive football and winning football should be the new manager's objective and he should be allowed to build (slowly and haltingly if need be) for the next five years - as long as we're in no imminent danger. Second, away from team coaching we need to see a start made on the stadium. At a minimum, funding needs to be acquired and planning permission needs to be secured before the year is out, along with squaring off any sort of opposition that could arise from building this stadium by other agencies. Construction has to have a firm date to start in 2019. If we cant get to that point by the end of this calendar year, not only is BMD dead but so too is the Moshiri era at the club. There'll be no toleration for anyone who cant deliver after being three years into a job here. We need these two shots in the arm desperately.

More precisely, I suppose, the years following the disastrous 2003/04 campaign were a line drawn in the sand which provided the basis to become a more credible (though not a really competitive) force rather than a watershed; what we need now are the building blocks to be put in place to allow us not only to consolidate in the short term, but to provide us with the means to push into the top five of this league in the way that Spurs have done under Pochettino-Levy/Lewis. It's a massive 11 months in front of us.


TLDR etc....
IMO, No.
We won't finish 17th, we won't finish 4th next season, nor do we have a Rooney to sell, nor a pressing reason to sell him if we did.

What we Will do is hope to 'k Moshiri hires somebody who knows what they're doing...and while were in wish mode hope Moshiri takes a leaf out of the W Brom book

Will read now
 
..not to complicate things too much, there’s winning football, football and losing football. I think we are playing football after playing losing football for much of the season. We need to play winning football but seem some way off that.
Another way of saying we need inspiration? I wouldn't argue with that.
 
IMO, No.
We won't finish 17th, we won't finish 4th next season, nor do we have a Rooney to sell, nor a pressing reason to sell him if we did.

What we Will do is hope to 'k Moshiri hires somebody who knows what they're doing...and while were in wish mode hope Moshiri takes a leaf out of the W Brom book

Will read now
Ha Ha.
 
Only my thoughts, but Atletico Madrid should be the model for us.

When you know you can`t compete financially, with the likes of Citteh, Man U, Barca, PSG, Real etc, you need to find a way to somehow compete and still be in the running.

A forward thinking and united board.

A " thought about " managerial appointment.

A " thought about " transfer policy.

Play to the teams strengths.

A clear plan how the team is to play.

Unfortunately non of the above has applied to us for a very long time.

Non of this will happen anytime soon, until Kenwright and co are gone.
But Atletico had Barcelona and Madrid to make it to and no solid opposition outside of them. They could progress incrementally. We have a phalanx of top clubs barring us from that type of ascent. We can get in amongst them by developing differently: more intelligently rather than blundering about with a chequebook alone.
 

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