Be careful what you wish for

[evertorial]

I see that there has been a new thread with lots of people wanting Moyes out and questioning his tactics etc. Sometimes people need to put things into perspective. Everton play Stoke at home, Stoke come with a plan, Everton come with a plan, only one teams plan will work and its not always Everton just because on paper we are slightly better. Moyes got the tactics right originally, we were knocking the ball about at a good tempo and getting the ball in good areas. Had Bily scored his chance then we could have won 3 or 4 nil. But because Stoke nicked a goal they then put two banks of 4 in front of our attack. This means we cant play that way anymore and the players had to resort to percentage balls in the box. We dont have a midfield player of the quality of Silva or Modric who can unlock that so we NEED to resort to percentage football.

The league this season is split up into two groups. The top 6 which WILL consist of Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool. Then the rest. We are in the rest and considering we have lost Pienaar and Arteta, there is nothing to choose between us and around 6-7 other clubs. This is something that people need to accept. We obviously need investment but noone seems to want to invest at the moment. Stop blaming Moyes because he is still getting some great results for us and we are top half of the table which is as good as it will get. Every manager gets it wrong sometimes but Moyes gets it right more often than wrong and his league finishes justify that.

last 5 years.
6th
5th
5th
8th
7th

This is spending no money in the last couple of years. He is NOT the problem. If he goes, we will definately not improve because as I say the level we are at is not with the big 6 but any team below that. When you are forced to start a young unproven Greek upfront against the hugely experienced Crouch, you cant expect to come out on top in every game. His options are limited and he is getting the best he can from what he has.

Stop blaming the tactics because its impossible to get it right every game and like I said before, had Bily scored then he would have got it right again. Even Ferguson has off days, like City at home.

 

[Azzurri]

Moyes is fantastic at getting the best out of players who have either been average for ages or are pre-pubescent.

Sticking with the same boring tactics without a plan B, however, and doing stuff like leaving Barkley on the bench with 30 minutes to go when we needed a player to belt one from distance does make me wonder whether he's losing it.

 

[ijjysmith]

Moyes thinks Plan B is a singer/rapper person.

Which to be fair he is. but it doesn't help when we're 1-0 down to a Stoke team who can defend really well when they are on their game.

 

[davek]

When will people start factoring in continuity? The manager has had 10 years in the job and that gives time in spades to get the type of football played in the manner he wants with a consistency that can withstand the coming and goings of players. I'd struggle after 10 years to nail down 'the Moyes system' apart from the obvious five across midfield. What's his philosophy? What sort of football is he prepared to stick with come hell or high water? What's his football principles?

We just drift from one set of objectives to the next and shuffle whatever players we have into the formation that muddles us through for a spell.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

I see that there has been a new thread with lots of people wanting Moyes out and questioning his tactics etc. Sometimes people need to put things into perspective. Everton play Stoke at home, Stoke come with a plan, Everton come with a plan, only one teams plan will work and its not always Everton just because on paper we are slightly better. Moyes got the tactics right originally, we were knocking the ball about at a good tempo and getting the ball in good areas. Had Bily scored his chance then we could have won 3 or 4 nil. But because Stoke nicked a goal they then put two banks of 4 in front of our attack. This means we cant play that way anymore and the players had to resort to percentage balls in the box. We dont have a midfield player of the quality of Silva or Modric who can unlock that so we NEED to resort to percentage football.

The league this season is split up into two groups. The top 6 which WILL consist of Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool. Then the rest. We are in the rest and considering we have lost Pienaar and Arteta, there is nothing to choose between us and around 6-7 other clubs. This is something that people need to accept. We obviously need investment but noone seems to want to invest at the moment. Stop blaming Moyes because he is still getting some great results for us and we are top half of the table which is as good as it will get. Every manager gets it wrong sometimes but Moyes gets it right more often than wrong and his league finishes justify that.

last 5 years.
6th
5th
5th
8th
7th

This is spending no money in the last couple of years. He is NOT the problem. If he goes, we will definately not improve because as I say the level we are at is not with the big 6 but any team below that. When you are forced to start a young unproven Greek upfront against the hugely experienced Crouch, you cant expect to come out on top in every game. His options are limited and he is getting the best he can from what he has.

Stop blaming the tactics because its impossible to get it right every game and like I said before, had Bily scored then he would have got it right again. Even Ferguson has off days, like City at home.

We've lost 7 from 10 mate. Which suggests that the tactics have been wrong 70% of the time, now if you ballsed up at work 70% of the time, then there is a good chance that you would have employers, colleagues and customers on your back. In fact you'd be out of the door.

 

[kenada_blue]

His plan against stoke was to punt balls into the box and rely on wing play, which is the same for a few seasons now.

Very amateur style of tactics against the tallest team in the league.

Now, instead of trying new things, new approaches in games, he doesn't and relies on the old guard of cahill, hibbert, Osman, saha, Neville to grind results out. When that doesn't work, he complains about money after banging on for ages that money doesn't buy you success all the time.

Money doesn't have to buy you a team that can play football. There are championship sides that play better football than us. Is that the lack of investments fault or the managers?

We also have a envious youth set up. Any premiership team from top to bottom would want Fellaini, Rodwell, Barkley in their squad - that includes man city. We've got exciting players like Coleman, Vellios, Guaye, Dier, who are being shielded for some reason like we have a choice to not play them.

Fundamentally we have players that can make everton exciting. But we have a mentality that survival is priority nothing more.

 

[toffee-bhoy]

moyes has been a good manager for us and at times we have exceeded when we thought we would fail but i honestly believe he is only here as long as he is coz we have no money.
i do not believe he can take us to the next level but will admit he has been the man to take us to where we are now

but am confused as to the football been played at a good tempo in good areas yesterday....i witnessed slow laboured play

 

[The Binman]

Kenada Blue: Coleman is getting games, as is Vellios, recently the others you mention are not yet good enough, even Guaye's cameo yesterday showes us this. Vellios in the two starts he has made, he hasn't been great, but he needs time and games, i don't think you can stick them all in at once. If you listen to comments from ALL of the managers who are not in the top 6 - 7 as it seems to be now, they all talk of survival as the first priority, so, i applaud that. I am not apologising for the tactics nor the team, i am not a football manager, so don't know what it takes to do the job, but like in any job, you have to cut your cloth accordingly with the money you have. Everton seem to have none (though i don't have the answers to tell where it is, as i think we should at least be able to invest in the squad a wee bit?), if you are unable to buy the kind of players who can unlock defences with killer balls, (we had two but were forced to sell both) then what do you expect. I would much rather be in our position then say Villa's or Sunderland, to name but a few, even Leeds or Bradford City for a while they threw money at it, look where it got them, it isn't always the answer. I would also give you Charlton as another example, we are in exactly the same position as they were a few years ago. They had a manager who played it safe, didn't spend loads, finished in the top eight more often than not, then got stick for not challenging, sacked the manager, threw loads of money at it....and where are they now..? Its not necessarily the manager who is at fault here, though he isn't necessarily innocent either. But i would prefer to have him than not.

 

[kenada_blue]

Kenada Blue: Coleman is getting games, as is Vellios, recently the others you mention are not yet good enough, even Guaye's cameo yesterday showes us this. Vellios in the two starts he has made, he hasn't been great, but he needs time and games, i don't think you can stick them all in at once. If you listen to comments from ALL of the managers who are not in the top 6 - 7 as it seems to be now, they all talk of survival as the first priority, so, i applaud that. I am not apologising for the tactics nor the team, i am not a football manager, so don't know what it takes to do the job, but like in any job, you have to cut your cloth accordingly with the money you have. Everton seem to have none (though i don't have the answers to tell where it is, as i think we should at least be able to invest in the squad a wee bit?), if you are unable to buy the kind of players who can unlock defences with killer balls, (we had two but were forced to sell both) then what do you expect. I would much rather be in our position then say Villa's or Sunderland, to name but a few, even Leeds or Bradford City for a while they threw money at it, look where it got them, it isn't always the answer. I would also give you Charlton as another example, we are in exactly the same position as they were a few years ago. They had a manager who played it safe, didn't spend loads, finished in the top eight more often than not, then got stick for not challenging, sacked the manager, threw loads of money at it....and where are they now..? Its not necessarily the manager who is at fault here, though he isn't necessarily innocent either. But i would prefer to have him than not.

Its not about spending money though. He's got together a squad full of internationals, a world cup finalist, and youth clubs would love to have yet we are incapable of playing decent football.

I'm not asking for the moon and stars, but you have to be insane to accept that Moyes uses the squad to its full potential and than we are unable to play good football.

Other managers have spent no money but have a football philosophy - Lambert, Di Matteo, Rogers, Martinez all don't have a pot to piss in but yet to play football with limited players.

We have skilful players but play limited football.

 

[The Binman]

Rogers aside (we can answer this one at the end of the season) Di Matteo is no longer in a job, Wigan are doomed, but yes i'll give you they play pretty football, Norwich do play some good stuff at times, but do also resort to hoof ball. All the clubs you mention have either just come up, or have come up in the last couple of years. Its interesting but i suspect they don't know fully when they do come up that playing pretty football with limited footballers, it just doesn't work... I also dispute that we don't play good football, sometimes we do, but will admit we do seem to be a bit one dimensional at times...and that does need addressing, as in my previous post, Moyes isn't perfect, he has limitations, but i would have him above any of the names mentioned above at the moment, no question.

 

[toffee-bhoy]

generally im not for gettin rid of managers ina season unless those drastic measures have to be made however i REFUSE to believe that the squad of players we have right now cannot play a better standard of football and that what we have to watch is the best and only way forward

with each passing season DM's defensive play it safe better not to lose than win attitude is choking the playing life out of our squad

 

[kenada_blue]

Di Matteo is at Chelsea after bringing WBA up from the champo and humiliated us at home last season.

Wigan are doomed.. .but Martinez will go down knowing his philosophy was never compromised, he never complained, and he hardly spent a penny. We can talk about giving money to Moyes to see what he can do, but give Martinez a good team and do the same.

If Swansea and Norwich go down playing the way they do, its going to be down to the players not being good enough rather than being poor footballing sides.

We'd never go down playing good football. But we stay safe playing horrible 1 dimensional football.

 

[Del]

Di Matteo is at Chelsea after bringing WBA up from the champo and humiliated us at home last season.

Wigan are doomed.. .but Martinez will go down knowing his philosophy was never compromised, he never complained, and he hardly spent a penny. We can talk about giving money to Moyes to see what he can do, but give Martinez a good team and do the same.

If Swansea and Norwich go down playing the way they do, its going to be down to the players not being good enough rather than being poor footballing sides.

We'd never go down playing good football. But we stay safe playing horrible 1 dimensional football.

But for how much longer?

Id say we where lucky to get wins against Blackburn and Wigan,You could even put Wolves and Bolton into that lot aswell,Honestly I cant think of the last time we have played well for 90mins

Our football has been dire and without some major activity in January I really cant see that changing

The teams below us will all invest in the transfer windows be it in Jan or the summer and strenthen there squads whilst we will sit on our hands spending nothing maybe getting in a few loans in and possibly selling again to keep the wolfs from the door

 

[toffee-bhoy]

but thats just it i get we have no money to spend but as i ve said previous i refuse to believe the players can only play the way we are playing and if we change our style we are doomed for relegation or are going to get tonked in every game

some of the names mentioned above seem to be as stubborn as our DAVEY but theres is positive...at times they should be playing hoofball instead of messing it around at the back

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Percentage football gets you nowhere in the long term, if it was that effective a route when it comes to goals then all the best teams would be doing it. You don't see it in The Champions League or even the Europa League for that matter, there may be one or two, but they tend to do nothing really. Minnows from a small European country or something like that.

Playing football on the deck will prevail more often than not, you are in control of your own destiny and there's lots of benefits, even defensively, something that rarely gets a mention. If the opposition team doesn't have the ball then they are less likely to hurt you, and it becomes tiring if you move the ball quickly enough. This should always be our aim, we are trying to bridge the gap and we don't have the funds to do that, so little things like style and performance are important.

I've seen Everton teams in the past who have had to play a certain way to get by, some of Moyes early teams spring to mind, but we are beyond that now, and he has some decent footballers available to him. There's got to be a better standard on display.