Arteta and Heitinga

[davek]

I said before the game that we had to get Heitinga out of CD and into midfield at all costs. Jagielka playing allowed that, thank God, and Heitinga did some great work screening the back four and forcing them wide higher up the pitch. Arteta became influential as a creative player on that platform. The pair of them never had spectacular games, but in the heart of the battle Heitinga and Arteta were way to classy for Meireles and Lucas.

I like Fellaini a lot, but on the basis of yesterday a JH/MA CM pairing looks a lot better balanced than having two chiefs in there like Big Mo and Arteta. Little did we know it, but Fellaini's absence was the first building block to that victory yesterday.

 

[Cena]

Heitinga sh1tout of a tackle at one point, something which i have never seen him do. Personally i prefer Felli there, but Heits did look decent with Tets

 

[RFUS]

I think Felli is a more accomplished DM than Heitinga, so I don't see why he couldn't do the exact same. I think it's more to do with Moyes telling Arteta to get further forward yesterday, than it is Heitinga allowing him to.

Heitinga is a CB, imo, and a very good one. Fellaini is the best defensive mid at the club.

 

[evilwebby]

Heitinga is a center-half, and it is a considerable bonus that he can also play defensive midfield. People were talking of him as a right-back too when we signed him. He would not have been played in DM if Fellaini had been fit. Moyes likes versatile players, and Johnny is good enough to do a good job for us out of position when asked to like today. I don't expect him to set the world alight on such occasions, but greatly appreciate the job he does. He's not been at his best this season until yesterday, but neither has the whole team.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I think 'Fellaini-Arteta' will be our long term partnership but Heitinga can and will do a job in there when needed. He's a good defensive midfielder. Didn't have his best game yestersday, and has still yet to reach the heights of last season, but it wasn't down to lack of effort.

As for Arteta, he was excellent yesterday, and it wasn't one of his more flashy performances, he was tenacious, strong and intelligent all game, on and off the ball. I've said it before, but he doesn't get enough credit for his defensive qualities.

 

[davek]

Fellaini is a big talent, no question. I have my doubts whether a CM partnership of Arteta with Fellaini can be created. IMO, we need one of the two CM to keep it simple and be disciplined enough to just sit and patrol across the front of defence.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Fair enough, I can see what your saying, Heitinga plays in a more withdrawn position than Fellaini, similar to how Carsley played the role. Deep, just infront the centre backs. It probably does give us a bit more discipline in there.

I still think Fellaini and Arteta will get it though, eventually.

 

[evilwebby]

Fellaini & Rodwell to be our "2" in 4-2-3-1 formation. Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill to form the attack fulcrum. Get it to gel and there's your CL place right there.

 

[davek]

Heitinga sh1tout of a tackle at one point, something which i have never seen him do. Personally i prefer Felli there, but Heits did look decent with Tets

I dont think he's a player who dives in all told. I dont see him as an enforcer so much as someone with a good sense of spotting danger in front of him, closing down on it and forcing it back or wide. I think he's disciplined and expects other people to do their job when it goes out of his central zone...often you see him slow his pace when the opposition is pushed wide in order to keep shape. He comes from another world entirely in football terms.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Fellaini is a big talent, no question. I have my doubts whether a CM partnership of Arteta with Fellaini can be created. IMO, we need one of the two CM to keep it simple and be disciplined enough to just sit and patrol across the front of defence.

My thoughts exactly. Heitinga did/should do what Neville did before him/whoever is at DM - just take the ball and play it simple, even if it's as simple as a pass to Arteta (or just the CM/winger/whoever), who is 2 meters in front of you. On the other hand Fellaini doesn't do that - he tries to build up play himself most of the time. It's what makes them different.
Although at some points of the game, when we were giving them heavy pressure to worry about, JH went pretty much as far up the field as Cahill, which was weird... Just wondering, y'know...

 

[davek]

My thoughts exactly. Heitinga did/should do what Neville did before him/whoever is at DM - just take the ball and play it simple, even if it's as simple as a pass to Arteta (or just the CM/winger/whoever), who is 2 meters in front of you. On the other hand Fellaini doesn't do that - he tries to build up play himself most of the time. It's what makes them different.
Although at some points of the game, when we were giving them heavy pressure to worry about, JH went pretty much as far up the field as Cahill, which was weird... Just wondering, y'know...

Agreed mate. It's a good blend you're looking for. As you imply, it's a big ask to expect shape to be maintained when you have two CM who both like to get forward.

 

[jamiem]

Fellaini & Rodwell to be our "2" in 4-2-3-1 formation. Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill to form the attack fulcrum. Get it to gel and there's your CL place right there.

Where's the width on the right hand side? Couldn't see DM ever going with that midfield myself.

 

[pete]

Any injury news on Arteta and Heitinga yet?

 

[RFUS]

Howard
Neville Jags Distin Baines
Fellaini
Coleman Arteta Pienaar
Cahill
Yakubu​

Sorted. Because Arteta was playing alongside Felli, deep before. But yesterday Heitinga was further back, more of a sweeper, and Arteta was further forward. There's no reason Felli can't do this. In fact, he'd be even better at it, because I think he's got better distribution and when on form is a far better winner of the ball, and all round presence. If he can get back to his Man City smashing best, then he'd be a great sweeper imo.

I think Heitinga didn't have much to do yesterday, in all honesty. I take great pleasure in saying this -- against a better team, he might not have looked as good. Fellaini can battle with the very best in midfield though, whereas Heitinga is questionable. Not at CB of course -- he's a world cup finalist don't you know -- but I think people are forgetting just how good Felli is.

 

[davek]

Howard
Neville Jags Distin Baines
Fellaini
Coleman Arteta Pienaar
Cahill
Yakubu​

Sorted. Because Arteta was playing alongside Felli, deep before. But yesterday Heitinga was further back, more of a sweeper, and Arteta was further forward. There's no reason Felli can't do this. In fact, he'd be even better at it, because I think he's got better distribution and when on form is a far better winner of the ball, and all round presence. If he can get back to his Man City smashing best, then he'd be a great sweeper imo.

I think Heitinga didn't have much to do yesterday, in all honesty. I take great pleasure in saying this -- against a better team, he might not have looked as good. Fellaini can battle with the very best in midfield though, whereas Heitinga is questionable. Not at CB of course -- he's a world cup finalist don't you know -- but I think people are forgetting just how good Felli is.

This is part of the point though, mate. If you do your job in that area you dont need to be spectacular and your impact can go unnoticed. You can repel the opposition by getting close and funneling them out of harms way.

I do realise how good Fellaini is by the way, and we know he impressed last season from playing deep. But he was given plaudits not for carrying out that disciplined sitting DM role but for sweeping up and breaking forward as the main creative force. Arteta was injured and out the way in that period. Mofro went back into his shell again when Arteta returned to the fray.

My point is that the best pairing in CM is not always about the best two talents. It's about division of labour to keep shape and team discipline.