7th

[davek]

Don't agree that he's terrible but I think our fans frustrations with Martinez has mostly been justified, especially this season. He has made so many costly mistakes that were preventable and we now find ourselves in the position that we are clinging on to the hope of 6th and 7th, instead of the top 4.
I think our fans are a bit deluded about us challenging higher than 4th at the present time because our failings have not all been down to the manager. He wasn't on the pitch when our players have failed to take their chances to kill games off, or crumbled late on in games. But a lot of the blame should lie with him.

This season has been a missed opportunity yet again.

Having said that, Martinez does have a lot of good qualities as well. His biggest problem is his ego and stubborn mentality that prevents him from making the right decisions for the team. I;m afraid that unless he sorts that aspect out, he won't last long term and won't succeed at the club. It's in his hands though.

We suffered some seriously poor officiating in the Bournemouth, Leicester, Stoke and Chelsea games which cost us two wins and a couple of draws (or, put another way, 6 more points). That'd have seen us 5th with an outside chance of a CL spot.

The blame Martinez carries is the failure to bench Howard a couple of months back.

 

[mkrudden]

I really don't think this argument works, because you don't necessarily have to win things in order to expect to perform well in the future.

Spurs have won one thing in the last 15 years, but do you think they'd be happy finishing 7th with their squad on the basis that they've not won anything much recently so therefore they can't possibly expect to win anything or finish higher than 7th?

Our squad is similar to Spurs, really only a decent keeper and settled defense away from our team, yet they're challenging for the league and you're seemingly happy with 7th, on the basis that we can't possibly expect more as our players haven't won anything yet. Well neither have theirs. They aren't a team crammed full of champions league winners, they're a clearly talented squad who are capable of challenging at the top end.

We're a talented team too, and our ambitions shouldn't be much lower than theirs. 7th certainly isn't the best we should be realistically hoping for.

But we spend bugger all.
Spurs and Liverpool spend millions year on year. We have to save for 12-18 months just to afford Lukaku.

Their raised expectations come from spending money.

We have to buy in younger players and sporadically bring in the more experienced players. That's what the manager is doing yet people don't care, they want success now. If said perceived success doesn't happen in the timeframe they deem reasonable then they want him shut.

We are a fickle bunch anyway. We've won 3 games, one against Carlisle, yet the tantrums have stopped and this thread is a morgue. Theories abound about how he is now "managing like a football manager", that he's "finally worked out what we already knew". All bonkers.
It's a progression and we have no right to ask for accelerated improvement because Spurs are paying more for players.
Just my take on it.

 

[Khalekan]

If that means Europa League then yes. Otherwise there is no diference between 17th and 7th

I wish people would stop saying these ridiculous things.

Of course there is a big difference between "17th and 7th".

If we finish 7th that means we will have won more matches than if we had finished 17th.

And speaking as someone whose outlook on life is considerably brighter in the days after Everton have won a game, and a lot bleaker after a defeat, that fact alone means makes 7th way, way better.

 

[ijjysmith]

I wish people would stop saying these ridiculous things.

Of course there is a big difference between "17th and 7th".

If we finish 7th that means we will have won more matches than if we had finished 17th.

And speaking as someone whose outlook on life is considerably brighter in the days after Everton have won a game, and a lot bleaker after a defeat, that fact alone means makes 7th way, way better.

I agree. And considering where we were, and how negative everyone, even me, was about a month ago 7th would be OK.

Not great but ok.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

But we spend bugger all.
Spurs and Liverpool spend millions year on year. We have to save for 12-18 months just to afford Lukaku.

Their raised expectations come from spending money.

We have to buy in younger players and sporadically bring in the more experienced players. That's what the manager is doing yet people don't care, they want success now. If said perceived success doesn't happen in the timeframe they deem reasonable then they want him shut.

We are a fickle bunch anyway. We've won 3 games, one against Carlisle, yet the tantrums have stopped and this thread is a morgue. Theories abound about how he is now "managing like a football manager", that he's "finally worked out what we already knew". All bonkers.
It's a progression and we have no right to ask for accelerated improvement because Spurs are paying more for players.
Just my take on it.

Hear what you're saying, but I think its a positive for the manager that he's built up our expectations by assembling such a talented squad without actually spending huge money. Unfortunately I think he's had us underperforming. I don't think anyone really expects us to be challenging for the title, but we should be on the coattails of the top 4 with the talent we've got.

If he'd been gash in the transfer market and we were 7th or lower I'd understand, but he's been incredibly solid and the talent is there.

A new defensive coach and a goalkeeper and I think we'd be laughing, honestly don't think it'll take much for his whole plan to click but I'm concerned he isn't entirely sure what's holding us back.