10 years of drought followed by torrential rain and flooding
- Thread starter angelinsydney
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johnnydawg68
Chairperson, People's Front of Saint Domingo
While it is undoubtedly true that there are natural cycles and variations in global climate, those who insist that current warming is purely natural -- or even mostly natural -- have two challenges.
First, they need to identify the mechanism behind this alleged natural cycle. Absent a forcing of some sort, there will be no change in global energy balance. The balance is changing, so natural or otherwise, we need to find this mysterious cause.
Second, they need to come up with an explanation for why a 35% increase in the second most important greenhouse gas does not affect the global temperature. Theory predicts temperature will rise given an enhanced greenhouse effect, so how or why is it not happening?
The mainstream climate science community has provided a well-developed, internally consistent theory that accounts for the effects we are now observing. It provides explanations and makes predictions. Where is the skeptic community's model or theory whereby CO2 does not affect the temperature? Where is the evidence of some other natural forcing, like the Milankovich cycles that controlled the ice ages (a fine historical example of a dramatic and regular climate cycle that can be read in the ice core records taken both in Greenland and in the Antarctic)?
Is this graph a candidate for explaining today's warming? A naive reading of this cycle indicates we should be experiencing a cooling trend now -- and indeed we were gradually cooling over the length of the pre-industrial Holocene, around .5C averaged over 8,000 years.
Not only is the direction of the change wrong, but compare the speed of those fluctuations to today's changes. Leaving aside the descents into glaciation, which were much more gradual, the sudden (geologically speaking) jumps up in temperature every ~100,000 years represent a rate of change roughly ten times slower what we are currently witnessing.
So could current changes be part of a natural cycle? Well, no natural cause has been identified. There is no climatological theory in which CO2 does not drive temperature. And natural cycle precedents do not exhibit the same extreme changes we're now witnessing.
In short: No.
http://www.grist.org/article/current-global-warming-is-just-part-of-a-natural-cycle/
johnnydawg68
Chairperson, People's Front of Saint Domingo
9 out of the last 10 years have been the warmest in recorded history. Explain that.
I'm going to leave Danny to pick this up.
TheBlueGibbon
Player Valuation: £40m
Regardless of whether you believe in climate change or not, we need to get off of fossil fuels anyway, they are running out.
Elong
The fire rises
How long have they been recording temperatures in comparison to the age of the earth though? 0.01% years? (I'm not actually sure when records begin, guessing Victorian times).
I believe the earth works in cycles. I will agree we aren't exactly helping the situation, but I don't believe we are causing it.
It's been hotter millions of years ago than it is now (Jurassic Period for eg).
ToffeeMark
Player Valuation: £30m
Global warming, where do I start.
1. The Government loves it. We can tax people and tell them its for their own good.
2. There is a massive green lobby that probably know's its rubbish but perpetuates it because they don't like cars
3. I give up. No wait, Global warming, ok the temperature of the planet goes up and it goes down. But since when has proving that its getting warmer = proving that driving cars or burning fossel fuels is causing it?
No I really do give up...
The only people I'm going to try and educate are my Children. You've got to look at both sides of the argument, I'm always going to try and teach them that. Get both sides, look at the raw data, not the interpretation, look at the whole of a graph. Understand how the axis of a graph can be skewed to prove an argument.
I Hate this subject.
But I do have green principles as well, I don't like deforestation, dolphins and whales being killed, seal pups being clubbed....but when they start taxing me to the hilt based on a really poor quality scientific argument....I despair
1. The Government loves it. We can tax people and tell them its for their own good.
2. There is a massive green lobby that probably know's its rubbish but perpetuates it because they don't like cars
3. I give up. No wait, Global warming, ok the temperature of the planet goes up and it goes down. But since when has proving that its getting warmer = proving that driving cars or burning fossel fuels is causing it?
No I really do give up...
The only people I'm going to try and educate are my Children. You've got to look at both sides of the argument, I'm always going to try and teach them that. Get both sides, look at the raw data, not the interpretation, look at the whole of a graph. Understand how the axis of a graph can be skewed to prove an argument.
I Hate this subject.
But I do have green principles as well, I don't like deforestation, dolphins and whales being killed, seal pups being clubbed....but when they start taxing me to the hilt based on a really poor quality scientific argument....I despair
ToffeeMark
Player Valuation: £30m
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/01/co2_fairytales_in_global_warmi.html
The black line is CO2, life on earth became rapidly abundunt in the cambrian age.
"it could be argued that the abundance of life arose precisely because high atmospheric CO2 "
When I studied years ago I think cows contributed more to greenhouse gases than you imagine:
Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of transport put together.
http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...o-planet-than-cosub2sub-from-cars-427843.html
Silence the critics:
The British foreign secretary "has said that skeptics should be treated like advocates of Islamic terror and denied access to the media," Doctors for Disaster Preparedness report in their January newsletter. George Monbiot wrote in England's "Guardian" that "Every time someone drowns as a result of floods in Bangladesh, an airline executive should be dragged out of his office and drowned."
Grist magazine has called for Nuremberg-style war crimes trials for those who deny the internal combustion engine is about to cause a global climate disaster. Heidi Cullen, host of the weekly global warming TV show "Climate Code," has called for the American Meteorological Society to strip its certification from any weatherman (or gal) who publicly questions anthropogenic global warming.
Meantime, European Union Environment Commissioner Stavros Dimas tells the BBC that people should view the battle against climate change as a war - accepting the privations of a wartime economy and expecting millions of casualties.
TAX TAX TAX
I've just seen the wikipedia entry on gloal warming. Thats why I give up.
Most of the observed temperature increase since the middle of the 20th century has been caused by increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases, which result from human activity such as the burning of fossil fuel and deforestation.
Lobby lobby lobby. Ok TAX TAX TAX.
Its my opinion that human activity is not causing the rise in temperature on earth.
the biggest source of heat in our solar system is the Sun. lets blow it up.
The black line is CO2, life on earth became rapidly abundunt in the cambrian age.
"it could be argued that the abundance of life arose precisely because high atmospheric CO2 "
When I studied years ago I think cows contributed more to greenhouse gases than you imagine:
Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of transport put together.
http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...o-planet-than-cosub2sub-from-cars-427843.html
Silence the critics:
The British foreign secretary "has said that skeptics should be treated like advocates of Islamic terror and denied access to the media," Doctors for Disaster Preparedness report in their January newsletter. George Monbiot wrote in England's "Guardian" that "Every time someone drowns as a result of floods in Bangladesh, an airline executive should be dragged out of his office and drowned."
Grist magazine has called for Nuremberg-style war crimes trials for those who deny the internal combustion engine is about to cause a global climate disaster. Heidi Cullen, host of the weekly global warming TV show "Climate Code," has called for the American Meteorological Society to strip its certification from any weatherman (or gal) who publicly questions anthropogenic global warming.
Meantime, European Union Environment Commissioner Stavros Dimas tells the BBC that people should view the battle against climate change as a war - accepting the privations of a wartime economy and expecting millions of casualties.
TAX TAX TAX
I've just seen the wikipedia entry on gloal warming. Thats why I give up.
Most of the observed temperature increase since the middle of the 20th century has been caused by increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases, which result from human activity such as the burning of fossil fuel and deforestation.
Lobby lobby lobby. Ok TAX TAX TAX.
Its my opinion that human activity is not causing the rise in temperature on earth.
the biggest source of heat in our solar system is the Sun. lets blow it up.
Elong
The fire rises
Interesting to see 250 million years ago there was a huge spike in CO2, but the Dinosaurs weren't driving around in cars and building factories!
Regarding livestock, here in NZ cows are one of the biggest contributers to the problem, and the government nearly brought in a "fart tax" until there was mass protest.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/14476
Regarding livestock, here in NZ cows are one of the biggest contributers to the problem, and the government nearly brought in a "fart tax" until there was mass protest.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/14476
icburns
pyar sauced
I'm all for being more responsible with our resources and I even fancy myself somewhat of a believer in climate change, but some of these theories get a bit out of hand...
This is my favourite one...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_prog_summary.shtml
Particulate matter released from industry blocks sunlight, reducing the temperature and hiding global warming. However, it disturbs rain patterns and disrupts the photosynthetic process. Since the warming effect is nullified, both problems insidiously build upon each other.
The end is upon us. DOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!
This is my favourite one...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_prog_summary.shtml
Particulate matter released from industry blocks sunlight, reducing the temperature and hiding global warming. However, it disturbs rain patterns and disrupts the photosynthetic process. Since the warming effect is nullified, both problems insidiously build upon each other.
The end is upon us. DOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!
The-Golden-Vision
Player Valuation: £20m
Nuclear weapons will wipe us out long before 'global warming' gets a chance.
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