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Hels not talking about it as an expectation. He's talking about it as ambition. Big difference in outlook and intent. People dont seem to have interpreted his words that way but it's there. There's always get out clause with Moyes.

I cant stand his downgrading of Everton. If he stays I wont be bothered. He's not top of my hit list by any means.

I dont see it that way. My view is that the PL is terrible in terms of quality. There's 2 maybe 3 out of our range but that's it. Europe should be a realistic objective. Even this season.

Even when he was here last time and we'd finished the previous season 6th or 5th...or 4th....he'd start every season with the battle cry that a club like Everton needed to target 40 points. It's rewriting history to deny he's always talked us down.

Yeah, it's defo not a rejection of Everton - it's financial.

If we want decent players in we have to pay their wages.

As an ambition NOT an expectation. It's not difficult to understand that...

For him success for us is top half. Just that. IMO we've outgrown a manager like Moyes. And I doubt he'll be here too much longer tbh. This has never felt like it'd be a long standing permanent appointment.

Because it'd be them publicly getting behind the club. This issue will get bigger and bigger - especially if we're struggling. People who've been "ok" or "relaxed" about their absence until now will be furious if we're not doing it on the pitch or we're not buying players. Nailed on that.

I said before it's got to be wages. Players know that they all cant get European football and if they cant it's best getting in a club that's got profile to put themselves in the window. We tick the box on that at least. This all has the whiff of Everton being reluctant to pay the wages demanded.

I wish I was that certain.

Of course. The hierarchy of blame is: owners CEO transfer management team AKA 'exceptional operators' Moyes But this short term problem and his lack of blame for it in no way obscures the fact he's always played us down as a club.

Yep. He's a poor fit for the club in that sense. Hels a steady eddie and he'll get us safe, but I just dont think he's what we need now. The owners should have let him go at the end of the season and gone all out for Iraola IMO. That feller will end up managing a top 4 club in this country...

Agreed. We're in trouble and he's right to speak out. But that doesn't destroy the overarching point that he's always expectation managed Everton. It's his default setting with us. He wont get away with that for long now though. It's just not possible in this era of the club.

He'd at least attract players in here unlike the past it dullard Moyes. Iraola should be our next manager though.

Looks like he's intent on a showdown with the management team imposed above his head and he's determined to put the pressure on them by going public. That's basically Moyes v CEO + owners. And that's instability.

Of course he's right to do that. However, it's always been the case that he never misses an opportunity to talk the club's chances of progress down. Always has and always will. That's not a coincidence, it's self preservation - because he never likes expectation heaped on him. As I said...

Rubbish kit for rubbish players. You get the kit you deserve.

This is the Moyes thread. IMO this is heading for the buffers as his comments will be riling TFG and they dont stand on ceremony. Terrible combination we have: absent owners + inexperienced team to do deals + frustrated manager = showdown.

I cant see him being here at Christmas if we dont have a decent first half of the season - TFG will ditch him. That's looking like a good bet atm.