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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

Hahahaha domestic abuse. What a funny.

Jesus Christ.
Who said it's meant to be funny? Is it in the post 'funny' stuff thread? No.

Instead of not forgetting about people like Collymore (and Cisse), who was charged with assault and threatened to kill her, I must remember to be offended the next time someone posts something about Italians being crushed to death or Suarez being racist or biting people or spitting at people. Or maybe they're just 'funny' and not as bad as domestic abuse?
 

Today I did some work in a house. The guy living there had all kinds of RS trash around his living room, a real state it was. Once he discovered that I was a clever chap who supported a real team, he tried to have a go. When did you last win the league etc . Of course, he mentioned 6 European cups and asked how many had we won. I informed him that we had never won it as we were denied the chance in the 80s when we had a great team. He started moaning about bitter blues and how it was not Liverpool's fault we got banned. However, he had no answer when I asked him who's fault was it then! This kind of talk went on and on, and he seemed a bit miffed that I was not bothered by his claims of greatness and was not being wound up by anything he said. Then, he said Everton will get a points deduction for spending so much in the summer? What!. I told him we have spent nowhere near the half a billion that his club had. He then went on some odd rant, making up figures, saying things like net spend, shirt income, gates? He lost me, I could make no sense of his ranting anymore. He kept claiming Everton are cheating. My laughing at this point made him rant even more. Then he stunned me! and claimed ..... that when you add in all the factors, then Liverpool have actually spent less than Everton this summer. I had to go outside, my laughing was too much. He was fuming and I realised he really believed what he was saying. unbelievable. I did add £20 to his bill though.
I can very much relate to your experience of being in the company of one of the deluded ones, whilst undertaking some work.
But when this guy came to our house to do some snagging repairs on my new build our respective allegiances (he confessed to being a massive red)led us to a bit of banter whereby when I mentioned Heysel he looked at me blank claiming he'd never heard of it. Apologies to those who've seen me post this before but it's such an incredible admission I just can't let it go.
 
Today I did some work in a house. The guy living there had all kinds of RS trash around his living room, a real state it was. Once he discovered that I was a clever chap who supported a real team, he tried to have a go. When did you last win the league etc . Of course, he mentioned 6 European cups and asked how many had we won. I informed him that we had never won it as we were denied the chance in the 80s when we had a great team. He started moaning about bitter blues and how it was not Liverpool's fault we got banned. However, he had no answer when I asked him who's fault was it then! This kind of talk went on and on, and he seemed a bit miffed that I was not bothered by his claims of greatness and was not being wound up by anything he said. Then, he said Everton will get a points deduction for spending so much in the summer? What!. I told him we have spent nowhere near the half a billion that his club had. He then went on some odd rant, making up figures, saying things like net spend, shirt income, gates? He lost me, I could make no sense of his ranting anymore. He kept claiming Everton are cheating. My laughing at this point made him rant even more. Then he stunned me! and claimed ..... that when you add in all the factors, then Liverpool have actually spent less than Everton this summer. I had to go outside, my laughing was too much. He was fuming and I realised he really believed what he was saying. unbelievable. I did add £20 to his bill though.
Post this through his front door.
Liverpool’s Financial Smoke and Mirrors: Time for the Premier League to Act
Financial fair play is paramount to the integrity of football, alarming figures have surfaced regarding Liverpool Football Club’s financial dealings. Liverpool would be over £735 million in debt today if not for what appears to be artificial inflation of their accounts through preferential loans provided by their owners, Fenway Sports Group (FSG). This figure is a staggering twenty times greater than the Profitability and Sustainability Regulations (PSR) allegations levelled against Manchester City.

Even more concerning is that Anfield, Liverpool’s iconic home, is now listed as a separate asset of FSG, distinct from Liverpool Football Club. This raises serious questions about the financial reasoning behind such a move. Why would FSG choose to classify Anfield as a separate entity? The most likely answer is that a significant debt is secured against the stadium, keeping it outside the club’s direct finances. This arrangement appears designed to protect the club from liability while allowing FSG to manage a large debt load secured on Anfield itself. Such financial manoeuvring not only raises doubts about Liverpool’s financial transparency but also about the Premier League’s oversight of these activities.

The ramifications of such financial manipulation reach far beyond balance sheets. The £400 million outlay Liverpool made in 2018 to sign Virgil van Dijk, Naby Keïta, Fabinho, Alisson, and Xherdan Shaqiri would never have been possible under fair market conditions. It is unlikely the football club would have had the oney to buy Mo Salah either. This spending spree was a pivotal factor in their ability to challenge for, and win, major trophies. Without this, Liverpool would likely never have secured the Champions League title, the Premier League title, or the other trophies that defined Jurgen Klopp’s era. Their successes on the pitch are inextricably linked to these questionable financial practices.

The gravity of potentially breaching PSR on such a colossal scale cannot be underestimated. It not only undermines the financial equilibrium intended by these regulations but also raises serious questions about the Premier League’s commitment to enforcing its own rules.

A Deep Dive into the Numbers
When FSG acquired Liverpool in 2010, they cleared two significant debts: one owed to Kop Holdings (the remnants of the Hicks and Gillett era) and another to NatWest Bank. The Kop Holdings debt was settled via an owners’ loan of £240 million at an astonishingly low interest rate of 0.5% per annum. To put this into perspective, clubs like Manchester United and West Ham were paying commercial interest rates of around 8% on their loans at that time.

Had Liverpool been subjected to a fair market interest rate, they would have paid an additional 7.5% annually on the £240 million loan—amounting to £18 million extra each year. Instead, they paid just £1.2 million in interest, when the true market value should have been £19.2 million.

Liverpool’s accounts from that period typically showed a net profit of £3 million per year after paying the minimal interest. However, under a fair market interest rate, this modest profit would have transformed into a significant annual loss of £15 million (£18 million in additional interest minus the £3 million profit). This scenario suggests that the club’s financial stability was artificially maintained through these preferential loan terms.

The Compounding Effect
Over 14 years, the financial implications compound dramatically:

Starting with a £15 million loss in the first year and adding the annual £19.2 million (the fair interest payment), compounded at 8% interest over each subsequent year, the total debt balloons alarmingly.

£15m x 1.08^13

+ £19.2m x 1.08^12

+ £19.2m x 1.08^11

+ £19.2m x 1.08^10

+ £19.2m x 1.08^9

+ £19.2m x 1.08^8

+ £19.2m x 1.08^7

+ £19.2m x 1.08^6

+ £19.2m x 1.08^5

+ £19.2m x 1.08^4

+ £19.2m x 1.08^3

+ £19.2m x 1.08^2

+ £19.2m x 1.08^1

= £495m

Obviously Liverpools’s P&L has varied, but it would be in a much worse state now.

Calculations indicate that the accumulated debt from these compounded losses and fair interest payments would now be approximately £495 million. Adding the initial £240 million loan brings the total to £735 million.

The annual interest at 8% on this accumulated debt would be a whopping £58.8 million.

Over the three-year PSR assessment period, Liverpool could have had an additional cost of £176.4 million factored into this year’s PSR calculation.

These figures are not just abstract numbers; they represent a significant distortion of financial fair play principles. Moreover, it implies that Liverpool would have breached PSR almost every year since the system was introduced.

A Call for Action
The pressing question remains: When will the Premier League take action against Liverpool, this is blatant cheating?

The Premier League has a duty to enforce its financial regulations uniformly across all clubs to maintain the sport’s integrity. Ignoring such substantial allegations not only tarnishes the league’s reputation but also sets a dangerous precedent that financial manipulation is tolerated.

Other clubs have faced severe penalties for lesser infractions. The disparity in treatment is glaring and unacceptable. If the Premier League fails to address these issues promptly and transparently, it risks eroding trust among fans, stakeholders, and the clubs that adhere to the rules despite the competitive disadvantages it may bring.

The Road Ahead

Transparency and accountability are the cornerstones of fair competition. It is imperative that:

An Independent Investigation: The Premier League should commission an independent audit of Liverpool’s financial dealings over the past 14 years to ascertain the extent of any PSR breaches.
Uniform Enforcement of Regulations: Any violations discovered should be met with penalties consistent with those imposed on other clubs, ensuring fairness and discouraging future misconduct.
Review of Ownership Loan Policies: The league must scrutinise the use of owners’ loans at non-commercial rates, closing loopholes that allow for artificial inflation of financial health.
The integrity of English football is at stake. Fans deserve a competition where success is earned on the pitch and financial rules are not bent to favour certain clubs. The Premier League must demonstrate that no club is above the law and that financial fair play is more than just a slogan—it’s a commitment to the sport’s fair and equitable future.

Conclusion
Liverpool’s alleged financial manoeuvring raises serious concerns that cannot be swept under the rug. The Premier League’s response will either reinforce its dedication to fair play or expose a reluctance to hold all clubs to the same standards. For the good of the game, these issues must be addressed decisively and without delay.

This is especially urgent now, given Manchester City’s precedent-setting win today. The APT ruling has clarified that excluding owners’ loans and preferential interest rates is unlawful. The Premier League must follow through and ensure that no club, including Liverpool, can bypass financial regulations with impunity. Without these financial loopholes, Liverpool would not have been able to make their £400 million 2018 outlay, and the trophies won under Klopp’s tenure would have been a distant dream. And what of Anfield? Why is it listed as a separate asset from the club itself? It raises the very real suspicion that FSG has saddled the stadium with separate debt, shielded from Liverpool’s finances, while benefiting from artificially low loan repayments. The time for excuses is over.

Not sure if this is the correct thread but I was sent this today
 
Today I did some work in a house. The guy living there had all kinds of RS trash around his living room, a real state it was. Once he discovered that I was a clever chap who supported a real team, he tried to have a go. When did you last win the league etc . Of course, he mentioned 6 European cups and asked how many had we won. I informed him that we had never won it as we were denied the chance in the 80s when we had a great team. He started moaning about bitter blues and how it was not Liverpool's fault we got banned. However, he had no answer when I asked him who's fault was it then! This kind of talk went on and on, and he seemed a bit miffed that I was not bothered by his claims of greatness and was not being wound up by anything he said. Then, he said Everton will get a points deduction for spending so much in the summer? What!. I told him we have spent nowhere near the half a billion that his club had. He then went on some odd rant, making up figures, saying things like net spend, shirt income, gates? He lost me, I could make no sense of his ranting anymore. He kept claiming Everton are cheating. My laughing at this point made him rant even more. Then he stunned me! and claimed ..... that when you add in all the factors, then Liverpool have actually spent less than Everton this summer. I had to go outside, my laughing was too much. He was fuming and I realised he really believed what he was saying. unbelievable. I did add £20 to his bill though.
The latest remarks I hear is that Everton trophies somehow don't count as they were won over 30 years ago.

A polite suggestion to therefore only count liverpool trophies won in the last 30 years soon quietens them down as they'd then be trailing behind a few other clubs.
 

i dont understand why they wanted to spend £35m now when they can have him for 'free' in 6 months? or at least half that price?

The likes of Madrid, Barca, Atleti, Bayern, Juve and the Milan clubs all don't want to pay inflated fees for young English talent, there is always a high premium. They will, however, be willing to offer him a lucrative contract if he goes there as a free agent. Liverpool know this, and really for me, they should have just paid up for him earlier in the window as it's a priority position.

The same thing applied with Alexander-Arnold, Madrid would never have paid like the 50 mil or whatever the shte would have asked for him had he signed an extension. So they made it known to him to see out his contract. Which is also why it's a complete non-starter when their fans say he should have just signed a deal to make Madrid pay a transfer fee, they'd have just walked away and signed a less flashy and more functional right-back instead.
 
This debate around Owen and Rooney is a bit pointless but saying that apart from the fact they were very different players Owen played for a top 4 team while Rooney played for us at a point in time we were finishing 17th. Owen bragging he scored more goals; whilst that’s pretty much all he did he did so in a team at complete opposite ends of the table. Owen could not have done for Everton at 17 what Rooney did for us. Stats wise Owen was better but just using your brain wise it was obviously Rooney
 

The likes of Madrid, Barca, Atleti, Bayern, Juve and the Milan clubs all don't want to pay inflated fees for young English talent, there is always a high premium. They will, however, be willing to offer him a lucrative contract if he goes there as a free agent. Liverpool know this, and really for me, they should have just paid up for him earlier in the window as it's a priority position.

The same thing applied with Alexander-Arnold, Madrid would never have paid like the 50 mil or whatever the shte would have asked for him had he signed an extension. So they made it known to him to see out his contract. Which is also why it's a complete non-starter when their fans say he should have just signed a deal to make Madrid pay a transfer fee, they'd have just walked away and signed a less flashy and more functional right-back instead.
If that's correct that would indicate guehi is off to madrid
 
This debate around Owen and Rooney is a bit pointless but saying that apart from the fact they were very different players Owen played for a top 4 team while Rooney played for us at a point in time we were finishing 17th. Owen bragging he scored more goals; whilst that’s pretty much all he did he did so in a team at complete opposite ends of the table. Owen could not have done for Everton at 17 what Rooney did for us. Stats wise Owen was better but just using your brain wise it was obviously Rooney
Owen is a little bighead.
 

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