2024/25 David Moyes

[mahermi1]

An utter myth that Moyes fans are desperate to breathe life into.

He didn't have the ideas and he failed.

Funnily enough, if United had gone for someone like Martinez that summer and not Moyes they'd have transitioned out of the Ferguson era much better. He'd at least have handed them a new identity and approach. And Martinez can show the sort of deference that big players (unreasonably in my view) demand.

Oh God no...

 

[mahermi1]

I think the big question was how did he get the job in the first place!

Moyes was still very highly regarded as a Manager at that time and that's why. The feeling was he'd took Everton as far as he could with the finances available to him, the next step was to a club with the finances at hand. But I can see you've already, like Dave made you're mine up, so no point in continuing.

 

[bicycleheader]

Whilst I don't really want Moyes at the club, I definitely prefer him to a Davek "let's have it right" post

 

[Cameron Manning]

Moyes was still very highly regarded as a Manager at that time and that's why. The feeling was he'd took Everton as far as he could with the finances available to him, the next step was to a club with the finances at hand. But I can see you've already, like Dave made you're mine up, so no point in continuing.

Well why did you start—I’ll leave you with “ Was still very highly regarded at that time “ by who except old family friend from way back!

 

[Rita_Poon]

Well why did you start—I’ll leave you with “ Was still very highly regarded at that time “ by who except old family friend from way back!

is this a reference to Walter Smith?

 

[BlueBarrow]

Well why did you start—I’ll leave you with “ Was still very highly regarded at that time “ by who except old family friend from way back!

Think that you may be trying to rewrite history mate.

 

[degsy]

Rings true.

Moyes is not a coach in the sense he is a deep thinker about football. His selling point for United was that he'd be a continuation of the disciplinarian approach that Ferguson won with: imposing discipline on very good / great players brought success. But Moyes didn't have the credibility to carry that on from Ferguson.

It had to be a new way of playing and winning that he adopted to make it there, and Moyes didn't have that to offer.

And they're still searching for it...

 

[davek]

I think there was a perfect storm there when Moyes went. There was not one reason why it failed like it did. Anything other than a title win would be seen as a step backwards and a failure. That pressure, the lack of respect (if we believe the stories) for him from the leaders of the group. I am not sure that set of players would have taken to Martinez any more. In my opinion the only way there could have been a true continuation is if there was a truly great manager, like the ones mentioned took over.

Even then, it would still have been a difficult task to take over from somebody who was the club, from top to bottom. Like Wenger as well, to be at a club that long, any manager coming in would have struggled to an extent.

I do agree that in an easier situation it might still have been a step too far for Moyes, I have always said he has a ceiling. I will definitely except that ceiling now, as this time around it is not a long term appointment. Short term burst with an eye for a continuation plan.

I dont think that was the case at all, tbh.

A CL spot and progress to the latter stages of the CL would have been perfectly acceptable first season achievement. But he cratered that team because those players could see that Moyes had stepped beyond the point where his abilities stretched to. Vidic's words above underlines that they were expecting a new man with new ideas. Moyes didn't have them and just tried his best SAF mini-me impression and they ate him alive for it.

As said: Moyes is a good middling PL manager. But it was a case of the Peter Principle at United for him. Completely wandered out of his pay grade into a job he never had the skills for.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

He had the cash to add to a team that won the title by about 11 points the previous season.

All he needed to do was get them competitive to stay in the hunt for a title and progress in the CL. It was beyond him.

The nonsense talked about that United team being 'over' is exactly that - nonsense.

If you actually remember back then, Man Utd were trying to continue the miserly approach they adopted under the Glazers and which saw them lose the likes of Ronaldo with no adequate replacements.

Woodward was the new CEO and he spent that summer making lowball offers for all manner of players.

Moyes season was actually key, as it caused Man Utd to pivot and get out the chequebook, which had been under lock and key for quite a while.

They tried to buy success by bringing in Van Gaal and threw money around like confetti. However, LVG took a wrecking ball to the squad and the culture of the team was destroyed as a result. They essentially became just another of the big spending clubs whereas they always operated a bit differently under Ferguson.

Under Ferguson they had been on a managed decline for years. The most noteworthy metric was how they became also rans who were struggling to qualify from their group in the Champions League. Moyes actually had their best Euro campaign for several seasons. It wasn’t until OGS came in that they matched it.

 

[Captain Bligh]

I dont think that was the case at all, tbh.

A CL spot and progress to the latter stages of the CL would have been perfectly acceptable first season achievement. But he cratered that team because those players could see that Moyes had stepped beyond the point where his abilities stretched to. Vidic's words above underlines that they were expecting a new man with new ideas. Moyes didn't have them and just tried his best SAF mini-me impression and they ate him alive for it.

As said: Moyes is a good middling PL manager. But it was a case of the Peter Principle at United for him. Completely wandered out of his pay grade into a job he never had the skills for.

The biggest mistake he made was getting rid of Mike Phelan to bring in his own back room team of Steve Round and Phil Neville.

Phelan was massively popular with the players at the time and it demotivated them as well as killing any true link between SAF and Moyes eras

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

I dont think that was the case at all, tbh.

A CL spot and progress to the latter stages of the CL would have been perfectly acceptable first season achievement. But he cratered that team because those players could see that Moyes had stepped beyond the point where his abilities stretched to. Vidic's words above underlines that they were expecting a new man with new ideas. Moyes didn't have them and just tried his best SAF mini-me impression and they ate him alive for it.

As said: Moyes is a good middling PL manager. But it was a case of the Peter Principle at United for him. Completely wandered out of his pay grade into a job he never had the skills for.

There’s a grain of truth but also much distortion. Moyes was making a big step up, but would have adapted over time.

Many of the Man Utd players weren’t having him, but the likes of Ferdinand now concede that they were wrong in how they behaved. Rooney was fuming at how many of the senior pros who should have helped actually worked to undermine the manager.

Moyes at Man Utd does show how much football culture has changed. In the 80s he’d have probably gotten more time and gone on to turn things around. The culture of the game is brutal and cutthroat nowadays.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

The biggest mistake he made was getting rid of Mike Phelan to bring in his own back room team of Steve Round and Phil Neville.

Phelan was massively popular with the players at the time and it demotivated them as well as killing any true link between SAF and Moyes eras

The Phelan thing is a red herring. Rene was more of a key figure, but didn’t want to work under Moyes. He seemed to think he should have gotten the job instead. Phelan is a bog standard assistant. Nowhere near some of Fergie’s old number twos like Walter Smith or McClaren. He eventually came back and things were as dismal as ever at Old Trafford.

 

[Nymzee]

Think a full season under him will really benefit a lot of players. Can’t have been easy coming in when he did.

 

[davek]

If you actually remember back then, Man Utd were trying to continue the miserly approach they adopted under the Glazers and which saw them lose the likes of Ronaldo with no adequate replacements.

Woodward was the new CEO and he spent that summer making lowball offers for all manner of players.

Moyes season was actually key, as it caused Man Utd to pivot and get out the chequebook, which had been under lock and key for quite a while.

They tried to buy success by bringing in Van Gaal and threw money around like confetti. However, LVG took a wrecking ball to the squad and the culture of the team was destroyed as a result. They essentially became just another of the big spending clubs whereas they always operated a bit differently under Ferguson.

Under Ferguson they had been on a managed decline for years. The most noteworthy metric was how they became also rans who were struggling to qualify from their group in the Champions League. Moyes actually had their best Euro campaign for several seasons. It wasn’t until OGS came in that they matched it.

The thing is, Moyes didn't want to spend. It's not his M.O.

But the cash would have bene there as it was for his successors. Moyes was trying to prove a point that he could be a good little company man.

He started out with a squad where he could call upon

De Gea
Evra
Ferdinand
Vidic
Mata
Fellaini
Giggs
Carrick
Fletcher
Nani
Rooney
Hernandez
Van Persie


...to finish 7th with 25 points less than the previous season was a catastrophe for him.

There's no way you can polish a turd on this for Moyes. It's just not happening for you.

 

[BainesontoastNEW]

The thing is, Moyes didn't want to spend. It's not his M.O.

But the cash would have bene there as it was for his successors. Moyes was trying to prove a point that he could be a good little company man.

He started out with a team where he could call upon

De Gea
Evra
Ferdinand
Vidic
Mata
Fellaini
Giggs
Carrick
Fletcher
Nani
Rooney
Hernandez
Van Persie


...to finish 7th with 25 points less than the previous season was a catastrophe for him.

There's no way you can polish a turd on this for Moyes. It's just not happening for you.

Giggs? He was 40 years old, Dave!