2024/25 David Moyes

[BainesontoastNEW]

Because Moyes had destroyed the spell that a first class football club had spent 20 years creating and it was hard to recover momentum. If Van Gaal had gone there after Ferguson things would have been different.

I don't know about that, Dave. Moyes didn't exactly inherit peak 90s United. Evra was 32, Carrick and Vidic were 31. They were staples of Ferguson's last "great" defence on the wane. Moyes was also desperately unlucky in regards to van Persie's body simply giving up that very season.

 

[mahermi1]

Rings true.

Moyes is not a coach in the sense he is a deep thinker about football. His selling point for United was that he'd be a continuation of the disciplinarian approach that Ferguson won with: imposing discipline on very good / great players brought success. But Moyes didn't have the credibility to carry that on from Ferguson.

It had to be a new way of playing and winning that he adopted to make it there, and Moyes didn't have that to offer.

Dave that team was creaking, Moyes was never going to be a Ferguson calibre Manager fair enough, but he was a very good manager just the same. The deck was stacked against him before he even walked through the door.

 

[davek]

I don't know about that, Dave. Moyes didn't exactly inherit peak 90s United. Evra was 32, Carrick and Vidic were 31. They were staples of Ferguson's last "great" defence on the wane. Moyes was also desperately unlucky in regards to van Persie's body simply giving up that very season.

Nah. Champions by some distance and one of the best teams in Europe still. Moyes had that to go with. And 2 or 3 players in their early 30s was never an issue.

It was beyond his abilities. Simple as that.

 

[davek]

Dave that team was creaking, Moyes was never going to be a Ferguson calibre Manager fair enough, but he was a very good manager just the same. The deck was stacked against him before he even walked through the door.

An utter myth that Moyes fans are desperate to breathe life into.

He didn't have the ideas and he failed.

Funnily enough, if United had gone for someone like Martinez that summer and not Moyes they'd have transitioned out of the Ferguson era much better. He'd at least have handed them a new identity and approach. And Martinez can show the sort of deference that big players (unreasonably in my view) demand.

 

[Gilbert..]

Because Moyes had destroyed the spell that a first class football club had spent 20 years creating and it was hard to recover momentum. If Van Gaal had gone there after Ferguson things would have been different.

You think Moyes destroyed United in the 1 season he was there lol.
Only the genius of Ferguson got them that title. That Squad was on its last legs.
I dont think Moyes was a good fit for United and i never liked the way he left here for them but the United of today is nothing to do with the one year Moyes had.

 

[davek]

You think Moyes destroyed United in the 1 season he was there lol.
Only the genius of Ferguson got them that title. That Squad was on its last legs.
I dont think Moyes was a good fit for United and i never liked the way he left here for them but the United of today is nothing to do with the one year Moyes had.

He had the cash to add to a team that won the title by about 11 points the previous season.

All he needed to do was get them competitive to stay in the hunt for a title and progress in the CL. It was beyond him.

The nonsense talked about that United team being 'over' is exactly that - nonsense.

 

[twoblue]

Yeah, because its clicked for every other manager at united.

Fact is ever since ferguson left its exposed how badly run united is.

Ferguson and the squad had reached the end of its life cycle. I reckon if they had stuck with Moyes for the next 5 seasons they would have been in better shape than they are now. But accept that would be a brave decision to put up with below par performances for a period.

 

[Gilbert..]

He had the cash to add to a team that won the title by about 11 points the previous season.

All he needed to do was get them competitive to stay in the hunt for a title and progress in the CL. It was beyond him.

The nonsense talked about that United team being 'over' is exactly that - nonsense.

That great side/squad consisted of phil jones jonny evans ashley young chris smalling rafael javier hernandez danny welbeck shinji kagawa and tom cleverly lol. Cleverly played 18 games in that title season as did the likes of evans and jones.
Cut the crap dave about one of the best in Europe still.

 

[davek]

That great side/squad consisted of phil jones jonny evans ashley young chris smalling rafael javier hernandez danny welbeck shinji kagawa and tom cleverly lol. Cleverly played 18 games in that title season as did the likes of evans and jones.
Cut the crap dave about one of the best in Europe still.

I notice you didn't say 'cut the crap about the best team in the PL'. That';d have been a hard one to sustain.

Yes, United had journeymen in their squad. They also had some of the best players in Europe.

 

[Gilbert..]

I notice you didn't say 'cut the crap about the best team in the PL'. That';d have been a hard one to sustain.

Yes, United had journeymen in their squad. They also had some of the best players in Europe.

It was you just above who said one of the best teams in Europe still lol.
It was an average squad in title winning terms. Plus the class players were past their best. It was Fergusons genius that brought that title home.
It wasnt a great squad for any new manager to take over. Throw in taking over from the legacy of Ferguson and it wasnt an attractive job at all. But thats on Moyes. He took it on, nobody else. Fair to say a wise man would have let someone else take that poisened chalice.

 

[wandyr79]

An utter myth that Moyes fans are desperate to breathe life into.

He didn't have the ideas and he failed.

Funnily enough, if United had gone for someone like Martinez that summer and not Moyes they'd have transitioned out of the Ferguson era much better. He'd at least have handed them a new identity and approach. And Martinez can show the sort of deference that big players (unreasonably in my view) demand.

I think there was a perfect storm there when Moyes went. There was not one reason why it failed like it did. Anything other than a title win would be seen as a step backwards and a failure. That pressure, the lack of respect (if we believe the stories) for him from the leaders of the group. I am not sure that set of players would have taken to Martinez any more. In my opinion the only way there could have been a true continuation is if there was a truly great manager, like the ones mentioned took over.

Even then, it would still have been a difficult task to take over from somebody who was the club, from top to bottom. Like Wenger as well, to be at a club that long, any manager coming in would have struggled to an extent.

I do agree that in an easier situation it might still have been a step too far for Moyes, I have always said he has a ceiling. I will definitely except that ceiling now, as this time around it is not a long term appointment. Short term burst with an eye for a continuation plan.

 

[MikeH72]

Sorry why are we talking about Moyes at United in 2013 again?

 

[Rita_Poon]

You think Moyes destroyed United in the 1 season he was there lol.
Only the genius of Ferguson got them that title. That Squad was on its last legs.
I dont think Moyes was a good fit for United and i never liked the way he left here for them but the United of today is nothing to do with the one year Moyes had.

He's rewriting history. Moyes was brought in because of reasons way above him, Ferguson knew which way the wind was blowing, the glazers were penny pinching, big spending russian in london was still big spending and the man city renaissance was in the wind.
Moyes signed Varela, Janko and Fellaini. That's it. Got Mata in the January. man utd lost Pogba in July 2012, after convincing Scholes to stay on just that bit longer. Bought him (Pogba) back in 2016 for a then record £90m. With the side faltering they were clutching at straws and trying to recover the recent lost past. Moyes reputation for having no spending Everton operating above "their" station was what got him the green light at man utd. You can't run a top competing side on a budget, not when the others at the top freely outspend you, the glazers saddled the finance they bought the club with on the club, when it was operating to pay them it ceased to operate to win trophies and collect the best talent.

Moyes 51 games
van Gaal 103 games
Mourinho 144 games
Solskjær 168 games
ten Hag 128 games
Amorim 42 to date and already asked to leave with no financial pay off required.

outside of a few interim games (about 40) its 636 games through 6 major* appointments. Ferguson, 1500 games.

Can't find the Varela cost, he played 4 games and was shipped out on loan on his 5 year deal.
Can't find the Janko fee, he played 0 games and was shipped out to Bolton, signed for Celtic 11 months later.
Fellaini £27.5m 119 games, let him leave early to play in China (5.5 years later), nominal fee recovered.

The rest of the league had slowly (and some quickly) caught up with man utd, maybe Bill was telling the truth when he mentioned a big side giving him a call to ask 'What would Everton do?", maybe it was the glazers after all, and their folly can be traced back to big blue Bill. Maybe.

Looking back, it seems the football brains at man utd expected Moyes to turn up and sign Pienaar, Arteta, Baines, Cahill and Lescott for £10m total and transform them on a shoestring. Besides not factoring in other managers and agents actively working against him to gazump some deals. It was naughty that they'd poached him and did so on the cheap with him running his contract down, he had to be in on that plan. At least we got top dollar for Fellaini and refused to deal over Baines. They also ponied up a large fee for Lukaku. Shame we wasted so much on schneiderlin and others.

 

[Rita_Poon]

He had the cash to add to a team - nonsense.

varela and janko cost nothing. he spent money on Fellaini. That's it.

 

[Cameron Manning]

Dave that team was creaking, Moyes was never going to be a Ferguson calibre Manager fair enough, but he was a very good manager just the same. The deck was stacked against him before he even walked through the door.

I think the big question was how did he get the job in the first place!