Makis
Player Valuation: £8m
If you have tens of millions of overseas fans you can fill a big stadium even with those prices since ticket price is really not the issue for them. Like, what might % of overseas fans at Old Trafford be?
Tom Hughes
Player Valuation: £15m
I think the Juventus comparison is a valid one for illustrative purposes. It is at the extreme end of the spectrum of approaches to building a new stadium. Pitching capacity particularly low, to minimise costs and really squeeze that supply/demand profile, to maximise ticket prices.
Of course, in their defence they had the opposite problem to us when they first embarked on their new stadium project. Attendances in Italian football had plummeted generally, and they had the cavernous and generally disliked 67k Delle Alpi, with its running track and whole tiers of empty seats most weeks. Plus their club had been involved in various damaging scandals too. So, in many ways their choice of capacity made sense, and seemed to have the desired effects. The fans responded positively. They filled it regularly and the atmosphere improved dramatically with the new tighter format. The gates started to drop off slightly after a few years, which they probably thought vindicated their capacity decision. Perhaps the novelty factor and new-stadium-effect had worn off slightly, or perhaps the club had pushed their ticket pricing a bit too far. However, there has since been an increase in attendances in Italy recently and the place is full every week again. Now Juve and some other Italian clubs are revising their stadium capacity ambitions. Roma had been looking at low 50s when they commissioned Meis originally. They're now looking towards mid 60s. The Milan clubs are doing similar, perhaps even 70k. Which brings us back to the future-proofing factor. Depending on the format chosen, sometimes when building a smaller stadium, optimising sightlines for that given lower capacity can make future expansion both more difficult and more expensive. As a result, Juventus are now even considering a whole new stadium.
I don't think that 53k is at that extreme low end of the scale for Everton. It is a sizeable increase (after all, 36k home seats up to 49k home seats is a 36% uplift). It may be close to that illusive "sweetspot," where they can still maximise income per seat (more than covering costs). The only issue there of course, being whether or not our fanbase can afford that financial squeeze. But, as with Juventus, it also poses the question about future expansion, if ever required. Not necessarily a pressing question just now..... but definitely a longer term consideration for any club.
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TraffordBlue
Player Valuation: £30m
On those two...Birmingham seems a strange one as they simply don't have the fanbase, regardless of whether they have a huge population. They've barely ever got big crowds in their entire history.
With Leeds, I think if they steam ahead with this expansion plan before getting some PL stability they could be putting themselves at huge risk of having a financial disaster at the club. Their matchgoing fanbase has shown over the years that it's fickle - they dropped to 20K-25K crowds before their first promotion back around covid time. They also charge high prices so if the football on show and results are poor, they will struggle to get capacity crowds. Elland Road is a dump too, will need a lot of work, I think it's that bad, they actually need a new stadium.
toffee66
Player Valuation: £8m
American owners come from a sports landscape where you can set up a new ‘franchise’ in a city and sell out a stadium if you invest in it and the team. The guys at Birmingham see London supporting half a dozen regular Premier League clubs and think our second city can support two. We see it differently because we know their comparative lack of success and the power of Villa’s brand but in football money changes everything. It will be interesting to see if their plans ever come to fruition and they create a new wealthy powerhouse club with huge support. They might providing they do it methodically and don’t try to run before they can walk.
jimmythenut
Player Valuation: £8m
A quick glance at Seat Unique and the Tunnel Experience for the Derby and some of the top games almost sold out already. At 4k a pop, clearly there's people with the cash willing to pay.
They called me up yesterday, and apparently doing well so far with sales. I did ask I they failed to sell any of the corporate tickets what happens. They said they will remain empty seats.
So I imagine they invisage most games selling out on general sale and when tourists want tickets for a prem game the only available option will be Village Street etc from £400 > £700.
They called me up yesterday, and apparently doing well so far with sales. I did ask I they failed to sell any of the corporate tickets what happens. They said they will remain empty seats.
So I imagine they invisage most games selling out on general sale and when tourists want tickets for a prem game the only available option will be Village Street etc from £400 > £700.
jimmythenut
Player Valuation: £8m
A quick glance at Seat Unique and the Tunnel Experience for the Derby and some of the top games almost sold out already. At 4k a pop, clearly there's people with the cash willing to pay.
They called me up yesterday, and apparently doing well so far with sales. I did ask I they failed to sell any of the corporate tickets what happens. They said they will remain empty seats.
So I imagine they invisage most games selling out on general sale and when tourists want tickets for a prem game the only available option will be Village Street etc from £400 > £700.
They called me up yesterday, and apparently doing well so far with sales. I did ask I they failed to sell any of the corporate tickets what happens. They said they will remain empty seats.
So I imagine they invisage most games selling out on general sale and when tourists want tickets for a prem game the only available option will be Village Street etc from £400 > £700.
Let’s wait and see what, if anything, gets built.
Tom Hughes
Player Valuation: £15m
Safe-standing is already introduced and part of the new stadium. It's the increased ratios that we don't know about yet. The rail seats used at BMD wouldn't allow for increased ratios as they're too space-consuming. Even if they were replaced by the slimmer German versions, the chosen tread depth (750mm) is at the absolute minimum for increased ratios, and spacially wouldn't yield greater than 1.5:1 (possibly as low as 1.3:1). In which case, the dedicated safe standing areas at BMD might only yield 2.5-3k more capacity. Making the entire Lower North stand safe standing might generate another 2-3k. The Upper South could possibly give another 3-4k too..... but those new standing expansions might compromise their concourse areas and would require internal barriers within the bowl. It would also probably mean that the walk-around concourse would have to be partitioned to separate standing and seated areas properly. Shame that they didn't go for a safe-standing paddock/enclosure. There wouldve been lots of scope to really boost capacity if legislation ever changed.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Capacity/demand/prices:
Everton's core areas for season ticket holders as set out in the PA for BMD + the census information from 2021 for Liverpool underlines that we have our core support in wards (and wards in outlying districts) where there's way over 50% economic inactivity in the population (almost 2/3rds in some wards).
While that's an imprecise tool to determine pricing it's a decent indictor in terms of how much elasticity there is likely to be among our support base for price escalation way above the circa £550-£600 ST prices right now.
Some clubs have prepared for the decision to go safe standing by providing between 7,000 and 10,000 railed seats. I know others have pointed out the ability for Everton to do the same as questionable given the seating space in BMD compared with other new stadia built, but that's the only way to go for us as a club with our particular fanbase to hold down any eye-watering costs - at least for some- in the future.
Everton's core areas for season ticket holders as set out in the PA for BMD + the census information from 2021 for Liverpool underlines that we have our core support in wards (and wards in outlying districts) where there's way over 50% economic inactivity in the population (almost 2/3rds in some wards).
While that's an imprecise tool to determine pricing it's a decent indictor in terms of how much elasticity there is likely to be among our support base for price escalation way above the circa £550-£600 ST prices right now.
Some clubs have prepared for the decision to go safe standing by providing between 7,000 and 10,000 railed seats. I know others have pointed out the ability for Everton to do the same as questionable given the seating space in BMD compared with other new stadia built, but that's the only way to go for us as a club with our particular fanbase to hold down any eye-watering costs - at least for some- in the future.
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davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Apologies, I posted my thoughts above before I saw your post.
But I see even those calculations of 'the possible' could add another 10k if it were done. That'd alleviate some pressure on ticket demand and cost.
Makis
Player Valuation: £8m
American owners are also used to city footing most of the bill which is absolutely ridiculous. Country of capitalism and tax dollars are used to subsidise a private company to that tune.
Tom Hughes
Player Valuation: £15m
This is all important too.
Whenever, people talk about the new stadium and reasons for moving etc, they always stress the importance of increased income etc. Obviously, all valid arguments! However, we have to also view that in the context of the local economics and wealth of the fanbase. Many struggle to afford the current prices.... some are already priced out! I've got lots of mates who feel that they cannot justify the cost anymore and have given up. There's a whole city fall of kopites who gave up going decades ago. There is still a lot of deprivation in our city-region, and that should not be forgotten. Yes, by all means push those limits for the corporates and well-healed by increasing the high end offer, and (dare I say) the middle-class offer with premium GA capacity...... but that should then also allow for a low price basic offer for the less affluent..... the ones who make the atmosphere and contribute most to the whole matchday experience, who are not necessarily interested in any fancy trimmings. Hopefully the safe-standing areas go some way towards meeting that demand.
I'm not sure what the current tkt prices are for those areas, but I would like to think that they would be cheaper, and reduced further if increased ratio standing was introduced. (Probably wishful thinking on both counts by me)
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Toffeeslam
Player Valuation: £40m
This is the most ridiculous stadium plan ever, they can’t even fill St Andrews !!!
Where are they going to find 60k plus fans when they have Aston Villa, Wolves and Forest near by ?
They are risking the clubs future if they saddle a league 1 side with a 60k stadium debt
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