New Everton Stadium - Hill Dickinson Stadium

[Drico]

It’s a numbers game. Building for a stadium of 60k? Why stop there? Why not 70k? How about we produce a team that’s a global success and then talk about increasing the capacity…. Just an idea….

Because when you've already built your stadium on a cramped footprint, it's too late.

We built 52k because that was the limit of Kenwright and Moshiri's horizon. As his widow said: "Bill's dream was to have the best stadium in Liverpool."

That said it all. He might well have helped build the best stadium in Liverpool - but it's not the biggest stadium in Liverpool - and it'll soon be smaller than Newcastle and Leeds's stadia.

But I agree with you about producing a team fit for such expansion. It's just that had we more competent people in place at the time, we might have planned for both...

 

[Makis]

Very few would be.... but Kirkby wasn't the only other option.

Where would you have built it out of realistic options then?

 

[Bedfordblue]

Where would you have built it out of realistic options then?

 

[Makis]

I take issue with that. An incompetent owner and management of the club is what caused the financial issues. That was not the stadium's fault. The stadium may have also benefited with a proper financial loan instead of the way Moshiri financed it.

People seem to be deflecting the subject of a bigger capacity by making out it would bankrupt us. Rubbish. Again it was the owner and the incompetent board that put us in a financial mess not the stadium itself.

But that was reality. Under Kenwright we were moving to Kirkby next to a Tesco. Moshiri was the owner and this was the way he was able to finance it.

And there is no proof that a bigger stadium would have made financial sense. Some people just want it so they can boast, whether it's good or bad to the club is irrelevant.

 

[adi dassler]

I take issue with that. An incompetent owner and management of the club is what caused the financial issues. That was not the stadium's fault. The stadium may have also benefited with a proper financial loan instead of the way Moshiri financed it.

People seem to be deflecting the subject of a bigger capacity by making out it would bankrupt us. Rubbish. Again it was the owner and the incompetent board that put us in a financial mess not the stadium itself.

Yes but it was the incompetent owner who made the stadium possible and got it off the ground. If he'd have opted for 60k+ he would still have been just as incompetent and the issues we faced (Usmanov sanctions etc) would still have happened, leaving us with the very real possibility of going out of existence.

So, more by luck than design, maybe 53knwas the right number.

 

[muckers]

Another point linked to my earlier one.

Why do we have to fill the stadium every week?

Like I said earlier, it would be nice to have a stadium with a bigger capacity for big (in demand) games. Just like the old days attendances were never capacity every week they don't have to be.

We don't want the unsightly empty banks of seats like you get in lower leagues however.

That's where a variable capacity could come in. I asked Meis about that in 2018 at St Lukes, (he

Another point linked to my earlier one.

Why do we have to fill the stadium every week?

Like I said earlier, it would be nice to have a stadium with a bigger capacity for big (in demand) games. Just like the old days attendances were never capacity every week they don't have to be.

We don't want the unsightly empty banks of seats like you get in lower leagues however.

That's where a variable capacity could come in. I asked Meis about that in 2018 at St Lukes, (he said no).

Because the last seats are, by a distance, the most expensive seats to build (which is a fact - no matter what you say) and we’d be getting next to no return if we did what you’re saying.

Who’s footing that bill?

Do yourself a favour - never, ever start up your own business.

 

[allen]

That will be an absolute eyesore down there soon.

Is that Peel land or do UU own it?

Yeah I honestly don’t know…

I presume it was moved to there from some other location?

Maybe it’ll be punted further down river again in future as redevelopment booms around us.

 

[aboveusonlysky]

 

[Haydn]

A successful team easily. Look at the waiting list even now for a team that's been garbage for 30 years.

As with all brands and that’s what we are within the commercial global world of soccer ball. Success and scarcity leverages desire and the willingness to pay more to be part of that brand.

If and it’s the big if, our new owners can deliver incremental success year on year, demand for tickets will inevitably grow. Ticket prices can (will) be increased to optimise that demand. The £100 a match ticket would soon arrive following European qualification.

A sustained league challenge over a couple of seasons, even more so.

Many place the blame for our historic underachievement at the door of Kenwright and Hamper Man’s empty pockets. We did once have the free money, but Mosh’s madness and Bill’s ego blew that opportunity.

The other side of that coin is maximising commercial opportunity. Can’t have it both ways.

Create enough demand for your product, optimise brand loyalty, the world is then your hamster in terms of pricing. Extending your stadium to accommodate another 10k paying £40 a ticket doesn’t remotely compare financially, to just putting your prices up and getting the same return.

 

[Brennan]

Because when you've already built your stadium on a cramped footprint, it's too late.

We built 52k because that was the limit of Kenwright and Moshiri's horizon. As his widow said: "Bill's dream was to have the best stadium in Liverpool."

That said it all. He might well have helped build the best stadium in Liverpool - but it's not the biggest stadium in Liverpool - and it'll soon be smaller than Newcastle and Leeds's stadia.

But I agree with you about producing a team fit for such expansion. It's just that had we more competent people in place at the time, we might have planned for both...

An extra 8,000 seats would have generated less than £6m per year in revenue at a cost of hundreds of millions.

Theres no argument for it other than willy waving, based on our current finances and on pitch performance.

 

[Makis]

I guess Drico from the internet knows stadium financing better than Dan Meis.

 

[Drico]

An extra 8,000 seats would have generated less than £6m per year in revenue at a cost of hundreds of millions.

Theres no argument for it other than willy waving, based on our current finances and on pitch performance.

It's self-evident that we couldn't afford a bigger stadium under the previous regime.

That's not to say, however, that what we have built will be suitable in the nearish future.

But that's where the Friedkins come in.

As lovely as the new stadium is, people should enjoy its aesthetic pleasures because, if we are lucky, these guys or their successors are going to have to find a way to expand it on its current site in the not-too-distant future. That may mean a less aesthetic look, but if that's the price of progress, so be it. That's probably a good 20 years off, though...

 

[Gallaeo]

Well they’re a global brand with most supporters outside the city. We’re neither. You think we’d fill a stadium of 70k every other week?

Not 70k but we’d fill a lot more than 53k every week.

The prem is a global league and while clearly they’d fill a bigger stadium than us, 57 / 58k would easily be filled.

We will average over 51k for the foreseeable I reckon, but maybe the extra costs to get to c60k weren’t worth it

 

[Tom Hughes]

Where would you have built it out of realistic options then?

There were several potential sites. Kirkby effectively deselected itself as a site following the results of public inquiry years before.... on the grounds of public transport, so I'm not sure why it is even mentioned. Clarence Dock was a less problematic site than BMD, larger, already filled, settled and half the distance to town. The Loop site was also still available and according to HOK/Populous, viable. Longmoor Lane and any other peripheral site were non-starters and just as implausible in terms of transport as Kirkby. As with all the various other stadia redevelopments that have and are still taking place, Goodison was also an option, and potentially a much cheaper option to achieve greater capacity if required. So there were always options, and certainly not just Kirkby versus BMD.

 

[Gallaeo]

An extra 8,000 seats would have generated less than £6m per year in revenue at a cost of hundreds of millions.

Theres no argument for it other than willy waving, based on our current finances and on pitch performance.

I think that’s too simple a number. Not all would be season tickets so average for league game could be €65 bringing it closer to €10m. plus potential cup /. European games, more food, merch opportunities. Tic prices gonna go up the next few yrs too. Our owners could fund it / borrow at v low rates.

Not sayin you’re wrong, but it ain’t that straight forward as I said earlier (in case you quote both!)