Eggsyblueskin
Player Valuation: £40m
To be fair adding more carriages to existing services isn’t providing extra trains just extra capacity.
It’s something Merseyrail have always done during periods of heavy use .
It’s something Merseyrail have always done during periods of heavy use .
John from Bootle
Player Valuation: £20m
Could a temporary solution to some of the issues be to not let Southport trains stop at Sandhills, instead stopping 1.3 miles from the ground at Bank Hall? Would that be too inconvenient for people not going the match? It's possible to travel in to town and swap trains. Could something similar be done with Kirkdale, though it's a bit of a trek up to there.
kenada_blue
Welcome to Barcelonaton FC
Hence why the more complaints and media getting on his back, especially if it's risking losing millions to the city, he'll have to do something rather than currently being something he's seeing as "making do" with what's available.
James Patrick
Player Valuation: £10m
Surely that's a disincentive for train travel ? The train would still need to pass through Sandhills towards it's onwards end destination and would make minimal to no difference to crowd dispersal rate.
John from Bootle
Player Valuation: £20m
It would free up platform space for those using the Ormskirk/Kirkby lines. Trains to Southport would still be doable from Sandhills, you'd just have to travel to town to change.
Look there's probably a whole load of reasons that would not work, just throwing it out there as an idea.
James Patrick
Player Valuation: £10m
It wouldn't really increase dispersal as the holding pen is effectively the platform now so can hold as much as a train. Issue to me is they can only get 12 trains per hour each way through that stretch.
People walking to Bank Hall may find they can't get on a train if the train has been filled at Moorfields.
All there eggs are in one basket here, if for any reason Sandhills goes down, train /,signal failure ect they have nothing in place, needs more buses directly to the ground, possibly park and ride at some different locations. Prior road for instance.
Absolutely amateur hour from are councillor again, every big event the basically wing it,
look at that liverpool homecoming, how that got let through I will never know bank holiday Monday, bbc concert on the same weekend,
Basically gridlocked the Southend of the city , train services overwhelmed airport ect and god help anybody that needed an emergency sevice.
Absolutely amateur hour from are councillor again, every big event the basically wing it,
look at that liverpool homecoming, how that got let through I will never know bank holiday Monday, bbc concert on the same weekend,
Basically gridlocked the Southend of the city , train services overwhelmed airport ect and god help anybody that needed an emergency sevice.
barneygumble
Player Valuation: £60m
From Kirkdale experience post game, on a weekend, the new trains might be bigger in carriage size, but the capacity isn't a where as high as the old 6-carriage ones.
Lots of people left behind on the Ormskirk train, which may become a major issue.
Hopefully they take the maximum precaution and just have everything 8 car going to begin. It is better to be over prepared than under, you can at least scale it down if it's excessive (which i doubt it will be).
Lots of people left behind on the Ormskirk train, which may become a major issue.
Hopefully they take the maximum precaution and just have everything 8 car going to begin. It is better to be over prepared than under, you can at least scale it down if it's excessive (which i doubt it will be).
Timbucktoo
Player Valuation: £20m
Turned out that plenty of people needed the emergency service.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
When you look at the Mott MacDonald transport plan (which all 'stakeholders' including the club, LCR and LCC bought into) they claimed a 'capacity to carry' in excess of 10,000 over and above demand for all forms of transport dispersing from the ground (63,000-64,000) - but under capacity to carry at Sandhills (the most obvious point of departure) of almost 13,000.
The only way they were able to get to that 63k-64k capacity to carry figure was to massively inflate the number of taxi's available and the ability of fans to walk 2.5 miles into town.
Never should have been allowed in a million years.
It's was all too seductive though this stadium build. Everyone took leave of their senses to get it done and a 'tomorrow never knows' attitude prevailed over the whole application. "Just get it done and we'll figure it out from there" seems to have been the mantra.
Even arch critic of the stadium transport plans @Tom Hughes stated on the stadium thread yesterday that if he'd been the planning officer he'd have passed it. That's an indication of the forces pushing to get this stadium built. Short of the CWG coming to the docks (a decision that went against us in 2017, btw so had no bearing on the submitted PA) it was obviously a calamity waiting to happen.
The Roma game will be very interesting.
The only way they were able to get to that 63k-64k capacity to carry figure was to massively inflate the number of taxi's available and the ability of fans to walk 2.5 miles into town.
Never should have been allowed in a million years.
It's was all too seductive though this stadium build. Everyone took leave of their senses to get it done and a 'tomorrow never knows' attitude prevailed over the whole application. "Just get it done and we'll figure it out from there" seems to have been the mantra.
Even arch critic of the stadium transport plans @Tom Hughes stated on the stadium thread yesterday that if he'd been the planning officer he'd have passed it. That's an indication of the forces pushing to get this stadium built. Short of the CWG coming to the docks (a decision that went against us in 2017, btw so had no bearing on the submitted PA) it was obviously a calamity waiting to happen.
The Roma game will be very interesting.
Tom Hughes
Player Valuation: £15m
The Mott MacDonald plan was paid for by the club and is part of their transport plan.... it is also reliant on the club's fan engagement and transport data from 2 consultation processes.
You asked me if I would've granted it as a planning officer.... i said probably yes. Why wouldn't I? Someone wants to invest in a site that isn't earmarked for development for another decade or 2 at the earliest, and it might even be a catalyst for further development (can't say we've seen much of that to date tbh.... one small hotel and a handful of pubs is hardly Canary wharf, butvperhaps its early days on that score)..... if worst comes to the worst and it's a transport nightmare, as a planner I can either pass the buck and say the fans didn't travel as they said in the club's data; I can say that all the public transport capacity is readily available a short walk or shuttlebus away; If the station sitiation is deemed dangerous, I can close/limit access to the nearest station spreading the load to nearest alternative stations, and/or even cap the capacity of the stadium (if that facility is built in). Yes, potentially embarrassing for certain people, but no skin of my nose, as I can possibly fall-back on multiple safety nets.
If you asked me just as an Evertonian, I had/have several reservations, as voiced at the time and many times since. If I had been part of the initial process from the club's point of view, I would've probably used whatever bargaining leverage there was to have tried to secure the much closer Clarence Dock site (no dock filling, far less preservation required and half the distance to the Pier Head, with money saved spent on a new 2 or 3 plaform station at nearby Vauxhall), or the Loop site, with far better all round road accessibility and closer proximity to the city centre..... but at this point, that is all spilt milk!
I think there are potential solutions at BMD and they revolve entirely around modal shift or the take-up of the public transport option. The efficiency of the shuttle bus service is absolutely key.... if matchday bus lanes can be achieved, then a few dozen buses alone could shift thousands per hr into town. Brighton had to implement a whole park and ride scheme to achieve this. We should also have free dedicated buses to some of the eastern suburbs and corridors not served by Merseyrail, which could all be a great help in keeping the cars away from those few roads that serve the stadium. Obviously any dangerous situation at the likes of Sandhills could be disastrous. Hopefully good marshalling arrangements will avoid that..... but the possible biggest danger in the longer term is that some fans will lose interest if accessibility, good journey times and relative convenience aren't achieved.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
If you're a planning officer one of the major issues you have to ponder is whether there's a robust transport pressure plan in place. But what's been passed is a pie in the sky aspiration. The BMD stadium didn't pass the sniff test on transport and should have been knocked back on that basis.
It's a major issue we'll keep returning to for years to come. Yes, some of the mitigations you and others propose will alleviate some of the problems, but we need a transport revolution to service the traffic at BMD and that's not going to happen. There'll be, as you hint at, a shake out of fans in terms of mobility and in terms of geography. That'll be the true price paid for that stadium - and that's more costly than the £750M that has to be paid for it.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Five and a half years since the planning application was passed.
Chickens are about to come home to roost on that inactivity.
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