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Thomas Frank

DualityNSNO said:
Think that only paints half the picture though?

Silva was a right man in the wrong time, as he's proven by taking a Fulham team to PL stability and has a go at the cups.

"Dour Davey" is because we know who and what Moyes is. Problem with his overly inflexible approach is that, while it's pragmatic, it's rarely adventurous and has barely won a pot in his several decade long career because of the knife to a gunfight mentality.

The whole point is that with Brentford he was quick to see what did and didn't work - hired as manager and changes the tactic to fit the players and get points, even if it didn't instantly work out; kept at it in the Championship and kept them as a consistent promotion "threat", until they got promoted; tried to play the same way as they did in the Championship but that lasted only a few games until he saw that it's just not going to work and changed it to be more direct and take advantage of set pieces, etc., took a full season before they started playing "better". The whole point of Moyes here and now is to provide that stable platform so that whoever comes next doesn't need 9 years.

Safe from the Beto thread I don't really think anyone expects us to "sell at a loss and just buy better players, simples". Everyone should know we're a bit handicapped anyway, as are most teams outside the SkY sIx, and selling everyone just to buy 15 new players isn't gonna be Moyes fault. What will be his fault is the re-signing of Doucoure and DCL, for example, or missing out on Charly, which are both things I expect people like Frank to not do really.
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Silva Fulham 2021
Champions in championship
10th
13th
11th

Not drastically different from Frank.

Moyes has won one more pot than both Silva and Frank?

I'll labour the point again, give Moyes a specialist striker and see how he gets on. If you've got no one bagging the goals you can be as adventurous as you like, it's not often gonna work.

Funny thing about those harking back to the 'Moyes mentality', when he was in charge of the pennies, we never got a points fine did we.

Also, I didn't say 'sell at a loss', the loans go home, and the OOC find new clubs. There's not a lot of anything tangible in the squad that can be sold, outside of those everyone wants to keep. Everton plc have had a contract on the table for Cal-Lewin for 18 months, now it's Moyes fault? Although I don't like it, I understand why managers keep picking Doucoure, and I can see why at only 32 he'd be offered another contract. As for Alcaraz, 4 sides in 16 months is not something I can remember a lot of previous. Is there a bigger issue in the back ground?
 

Rita_Poon said:
Silva Fulham 2021
Champions in championship
10th
13th
11th

Not drastically different from Frank.

Moyes has won one more pot than both Silva and Frank?

I'll labour the point again, give Moyes a specialist striker and see how he gets on. If you've got no one bagging the goals you can be as adventurous as you like, it's not often gonna work.

Funny thing about those harking back to the 'Moyes mentality', when he was in charge of the pennies, we never got a points fine did we.

Also, I didn't say 'sell at a loss', the loans go home, and the OOC find new clubs. There's not a lot of anything tangible in the squad that can be sold, outside of those everyone wants to keep. Everton plc have had a contract on the table for Cal-Lewin for 18 months, now it's Moyes fault? Although I don't like it, I understand why managers keep picking Doucoure, and I can see why at only 32 he'd be offered another contract. As for Alcaraz, 4 sides in 16 months is not something I can remember a lot of previous. Is there a bigger issue in the back ground?
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Didn't mean you specifically mate, soz it came out that way x

Drastically different in the fact they've taken a Championship team to the Prem and made them stable in the Prem pretty much instantly. We, of all people/teams, should know that this isn't as easy as it looks, and they've both done it with mostly Championship squads (at the first try obvs), which is commendable.

Silva's won the Championship mate, but even discounting that (and the fact Moyes also won the community shield with ManU, so two pots?), Moyes has a several decade or so head start on both of them :lol: you'd expect, given his resume, that he's won something at least.

The striker argument makes sense but a team isn't only as good as their striker, specialist even less so considering a Moyes striker has two flavours - tall and "pump it in the box for the big man to head home" (which tbf is/should be DCL) or fast enough to play the last man/offside trap. Occasionally he finds a way to fit in a Jelavic type who can slot and do nothing more, but it's mostly the big man, with the bonus of holding up the ball decently. Anyway, we'd also need 2 decent wingers and to play Ndiaye as a #10 instead of whatever we're currently doing.

We didn't get fines by the PL but we kept getting dodgy deals with dodgy actors for dodgy loans, leaving us penniless. Looking at it in the "Moyes kept it safe" prism is leaving out the rest of the situation surrounding that.

I understand why Doucoure would be getting picked and offered a new contract, if it was 2 years ago. Present time he's gassed quickly, seeing as his only skill is running, and his technical limitations are showing, which is why we should stay away from him. The Charly situation is weird as one of those was a loan, then he got sold, and now the option is suspiciously low. If it's something in the background then he'll either finish his career in Brazil/South America or retire early?
 
DualityNSNO said:
Didn't mean you specifically mate, soz it came out that way x

Drastically different in the fact they've taken a Championship team to the Prem and made them stable in the Prem pretty much instantly. We, of all people/teams, should know that this isn't as easy as it looks, and they've both done it with mostly Championship squads (at the first try obvs), which is commendable.

Silva's won the Championship mate, but even discounting that (and the fact Moyes also won the community shield with ManU, so two pots?), Moyes has a several decade or so head start on both of them :lol: you'd expect, given his resume, that he's won something at least.

The striker argument makes sense but a team isn't only as good as their striker, specialist even less so considering a Moyes striker has two flavours - tall and "pump it in the box for the big man to head home" (which tbf is/should be DCL) or fast enough to play the last man/offside trap. Occasionally he finds a way to fit in a Jelavic type who can slot and do nothing more, but it's mostly the big man, with the bonus of holding up the ball decently. Anyway, we'd also need 2 decent wingers and to play Ndiaye as a #10 instead of whatever we're currently doing.

We didn't get fines by the PL but we kept getting dodgy deals with dodgy actors for dodgy loans, leaving us penniless. Looking at it in the "Moyes kept it safe" prism is leaving out the rest of the situation surrounding that.

I understand why Doucoure would be getting picked and offered a new contract, if it was 2 years ago. Present time he's gassed quickly, seeing as his only skill is running, and his technical limitations are showing, which is why we should stay away from him. The Charly situation is weird as one of those was a loan, then he got sold, and now the option is suspiciously low. If it's something in the background then he'll either finish his career in Brazil/South America or retire early?
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no worries.

Alcaraz could have signing on syndrome, every move comes with a bonus, so let's get moving.

It's all a series of if's, if Doucoure stays, does he continue in the 10 or do we want Ndiaye there? Suddenly that negates Alcaraz anyhow. Maybe it's the big idea, Delap and a right winger, Ndiaye the 10, McNeil to LW. Gana and another top up midfield. Backline is solid. A limited outlay and just lots of prayers everyone stays fit and close to form. I don't know who the RW could be, think I let online whispers cloud me last time when I said Fellows.
Can see Moyes utilizing all 5 loan spots again next season. We were never signing Mangala for £40m, and he's recovering with ACL until new year at the earliest. We relied on him this year, shame he got hurt. We're light everywhere, except maybe defence. (until Keane and Young decide what's next).

We didn't get fines from the PL, we got points deductions.

Whoever we get in as striker is going to have to do some work, because if midfield is all players less than 5'10'' then the only outfield fighter we'll have is him, and it's a long tough road of a season to be battling all the brutes every week for ten months solid.
 
Rita_Poon said:
no worries.

Alcaraz could have signing on syndrome, every move comes with a bonus, so let's get moving.

It's all a series of if's, if Doucoure stays, does he continue in the 10 or do we want Ndiaye there? Suddenly that negates Alcaraz anyhow. Maybe it's the big idea, Delap and a right winger, Ndiaye the 10, McNeil to LW. Gana and another top up midfield. Backline is solid. A limited outlay and just lots of prayers everyone stays fit and close to form. I don't know who the RW could be, think I let online whispers cloud me last time when I said Fellows.
Can see Moyes utilizing all 5 loan spots again next season. We were never signing Mangala for £40m, and he's recovering with aCL until new year at the earliest. We relied on him this year, shame he got hurt. We're light everywhere, expect maybe defence. (until Keane and Young decide what's next).

We didn't get fines from the PL, we got points deductions.

Whoever we get in as striker is going to have to do some work, because if midfield is all players less than 5'10'' then the only outfield fighter we'll have is him, and it's a long tough road of a season to be battling all the brutes every week for ten months solid.
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Potato, tomato :lol: We got some form of punishment.

Anyway, to not derail (further), Thomas Frank is a decent manager.
 

cjuk87 said:
Wissa and Bryan Kinder Bueno have scored 36 goals between them. Everton have scored 36 in total. We can look at every manager in the world, but if we don't buy goalscorers, we're going nowhere.
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No doubt.

But managers are involved in transfers - Frank signed both those examples.

Also, you get players like Mateta. Looked awful under Hodgson. Certainly never a goalscorer. Looks great under Glasner. Very much a goalscorer.
 

Saint Domingo said:
Not sure his runs of bad results would be tolerated by fans of other teams in the league. Equally the direct football would also be a problem. I think he’s done a great job at Brentford but not sure Everton fans would have him.
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I've never found Brentford to be that direct. I actually think that they play pretty exciting attacking football , much more preferable to this interminable passing it around the defence
 
GrandOldTeam said:
No doubt.

But managers are involved in transfers - Frank signed both those examples.

Also, you get players like Mateta. Looked awful under Hodgson. Certainly never a goalscorer. Looks great under Glasner. Very much a goalscorer.
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Oh definitely, it's a huge part of it. I wouldn't be against him. I just genuinely think we're in a position currently that is more messy than people realise.

We HAVE to get the recruitment right. Then we have to hit the ground running. People won't like me saying this, but the fans are a big problem (partly understandable) but we're reactive and the minute the smallest thing goes wrong, the groans, moans and boos come out. The ground should've been bouncing on Sat, it wasn't. At 2-0, it wasn't. But the minute they scored, it got moody.

Dyche has gone, relegation has gone, the new ground is here. Our only job now is to get behind the team, a fresh start. Sing and be positive.

I feel like no matter who we bring in, both on and off the pitch, until we calm down and recognise our role and keep calm, things won't change.
 
I have to admit I'm fond of brentfords weird percentage football approach, but not conviced our fans would have it.
 
jazzy said:
He's in a comfort zone , the Matt Le Tissier of managers.
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I think that says a lot really, he has created the comfort zone and he has Brentford as a very comfortable PL outfit.
He has maximized his squad, he has his club punching well above their weight.

Thats all on him and his recruitment.
 

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