The State Pension

[davids]

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It’s the 50+ demographic who seem to be most in favour of that sort of thing. That 29% for Reform in the 65+ band are the definition of turkeys voting for Christmas.

Straw poll a 1000 people? A few more or a few less, then extrapolate that to represent 65 million people. Hardly scientific,if you look at the Runcorn voters turn out it was just over 40%.

 

[toffee82]

Straw poll a 1000 people? A few more or a few less, then extrapolate that to represent 65 million people. Hardly scientific,if you look at the Runcorn voters turn out it was just over 40%.

That's because the other 60% in Runcorn can't spell X.

 

[Old Blue 2]

You are the one who is trying to prove me wrong? You’ve picked up on this issue of means testing and seem to be running away with it.

“A means test is a determination of whether an individual or family is eligible for government benefits, assistance or welfare, based upon whether the individual or family possesses the means to do with less or none of that help.”

Is this not what I have said?

I’ve made a fairly simple argument from the beginning of the thread that payment of the State Pension should probably be paid based on need, rather than entitlement, due it becoming increasingly unsustainable.

“Back in 2018, the Government Actuary’s Department (GAD) estimated that the UK’s increasingly ageing population could drive the State Pension fund to run dry by 2033. Quite simply because we’re paying out more than we’re putting in.”

He who asserts must prove? Legal training? We’re having a discussion on an internet forum.

I’ve tried to be polite, but you appear unable to understand, due to either poor reading comprehension or simply being a garden variety dullard, the premise that is being argued. You have failed to put forward anything resembling a cogent argument, simply flying off into fragmented and incoherent ramblings. I’d kindly suggest that the internet probably isn’t for you, pal.

And I would suggest that it is not for you. Your lack of understanding of the term 'means-test' adequately illustrates that. You obviously do not know the genesis of the term, so I'll educate you (once again). When the Government introduced what one might term the 'Welfare State' in 1948, the intention was that by paying contributions, a person would live sufficiently on those payments. In later-day terms, things like Sickness benefits, Unemployment benefit, and Retirement Pension. What became known as Supplementary Benefit (later Income Support) was intended for those who did not have such contributory income. However, what happened over the years was that the rate of Supplementary Benefit increased much higher than the rates of contributory benefits, so people who were receiving contributory benefits also qualified for Supplementary Benefit. Understand? Probably not.

And as for 'He who asserts must prove', it is as valid here as anywhere else. You can spout all your views and opinions on internet forums, but if you can't back them up by real facts, they're not worth a carrot! You have backed up nothing!

And I'm fine with reading comprehension, and certainly not a dullard. Having written/co-written 11 (eleven) books (one being a second edition), with a further second edition coming out later this year, and numerous magazine articles, as well as contributing with photos and information to many more works, and also giving talks to various aviation societies and museums, my comprehension is fine on all fronts. Put you big clodhoppers in it again, I see. But thank you for your concern...

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I would hazard a guess that it's a fundamental aspect of politics. Politicians globally seem to like to over promise things and not ask current taxpayers to pay for those things as that might lose them votes.

A pension thread is like your bat signal.

 

[Moomin]

Ahead of the game me.

 

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

And I would suggest that it is not for you. Your lack of understanding of the term 'means-test' adequately illustrates that. You obviously do not know the genesis of the term, so I'll educate you (once again). When the Government introduced what one might term the 'Welfare State' in 1948, the intention was that by paying contributions, a person would live sufficiently on those payments. In later-day terms, things like Sickness benefits, Unemployment benefit, and Retirement Pension. What became known as Supplementary Benefit (later Income Support) was intended for those who did not have such contributory income. However, what happened over the years was that the rate of Supplementary Benefit increased much higher than the rates of contributory benefits, so people who were receiving contributory benefits also qualified for Supplementary Benefit. Understand? Probably not.

And as for 'He who asserts must prove', it is as valid here as anywhere else. You can spout all your views and opinions on internet forums, but if you can't back them up by real facts, they're not worth a carrot! You have backed up nothing!

And I'm fine with reading comprehension, and certainly not a dullard. Having written/co-written 11 (eleven) books (one being a second edition), with a further second edition coming out later this year, and numerous magazine articles, as well as contributing with photos and information to many more works, and also giving talks to various aviation societies and museums, my comprehension is fine on all fronts. Put you big clodhoppers in it again, I see. But thank you for your concern...

You’re not educating anyone, you’re just rambling and failing to make any meaningful contribution to the discussion.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Interesting timing.

Assisted deaths could be over 4,000 in 10th year after law change

Estimate included in official review of costs and impact of passing assisted dying law in England and Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bruce Wayne]

A pension thread is like your bat signal.

Pensions and bike insurance. It's how I spend my Saturday nights.

 

[Sadken]

Ahead of the game me.

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As a pensioner I would love to move to the Isle of man/wi D

Ahead of the game me.

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As a pensioner I would love to move to the Isle of wight/man, and when us pensioners have all gone there will be lots of room for all the illegal immigrants, bring it on, Enoch Powell was spot on.

 

[Rita_Poon]

 

[Bruce Wayne]

As a pensioner I would love to move to the Isle of man/wi D

As a pensioner I would love to move to the Isle of wight/man, and when us pensioners have all gone there will be lots of room for all the illegal immigrants, bring it on, Enoch Powell was spot on.

You'd fit in well on the Isle of Wight.

 

[dylsexicbleu]

The State Pension in its current format is fast becoming an unsustainable burden on working people. I believe it currently accounts for around 11% of the annual budget and over 50% of welfare spending.

With the older demographic having played a big hand in delivering Brexit, and now doing something similar with Reform, is it time for us to look seriously and making a change? They are biting the hands of those who fund their benefits, and I feel it should no longer be tolerated.

My suggestion would be to scrap the triple lock immediately, before gradually moving to a means tested State Pension in tranches. The poorest will retain their full entitlement, but it will essentially be a generous form of Universal Credit for the elderly. We can use the money saved on education and skills training.

Discuss.

Sure, you can do this. Just beware the political consequences. An army of middle class folk no longer with a stake in the pension system. That's a lifetime of payments into the system with next to no benefit.

An army of middle class people aged, say, 40 and above are not voting for the party who brings this in. In fact they will actually vote against them through tactical voting. Whoever brings this in will be utterly destroyed electorally.

The only way this gets fixed is via the financial markets or AI. If it's AI we have half a chance of fixing this somewhat amicably. If it's the financial markets it's gonna be an almighty mess for whoever the government of the day is.

 

[magicjuan]

The State Pension in its current format is fast becoming an unsustainable burden on working people. I believe it currently accounts for around 11% of the annual budget and over 50% of welfare spending.

With the older demographic having played a big hand in delivering Brexit, and now doing something similar with Reform, is it time for us to look seriously and making a change? They are biting the hands of those who fund their benefits, and I feel it should no longer be tolerated.

My suggestion would be to scrap the triple lock immediately, before gradually moving to a means tested State Pension in tranches. The poorest will retain their full entitlement, but it will essentially be a generous form of Universal Credit for the elderly. We can use the money saved on education and skills training.

Discuss.

You need to bear in mind that this guff about people living longer is the problem, it isn't. The problem is, successive governments changing the laws and rules to access NI contributions and use it as a taxation.
NI was supposed to fund pensions as well as social security and the NHS.
They've used the contributions to cover tax breaks for those that don't need it and offset corporation taxes that aren't being paid at all.
We're one of the lowest pensions in the West and nowhere near a liveable income. So, sod off basically

 

[Sadken]

You'd fit in well on the Isle of Wight.

Thanks

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You need to bear in mind that this guff about people living longer is the problem, it isn't. The problem is, successive governments changing the laws and rules to access NI contributions and use it as a taxation.
NI was supposed to fund pensions as well as social security and the NHS.
They've used the contributions to cover tax breaks for those that don't need it and offset corporation taxes that aren't being paid at all.
We're one of the lowest pensions in the West and nowhere near a liveable income. So, sod off basically

How much is NI in total and how much is spent on pensions, welfare, and the NHS?