New Everton Stadium - Hill Dickinson Stadium

AndyRJ said:
If it was a single developer then i'd tend to agree with you but there are multiple landowners/ stakeholders involved, particularly across the 10 streets masterplan. The Central Docks area of Liverpool Waters is mooted to be a 10-15 year timescale and if TFG secure Nelson Dock then we'll certainly see some signficant development there also within the next 5-10 years. I think the area between those two will take longer as will the 10 Streets Masterplan but you never know. LCC want to deliver 2,000 new homes per year for the next 5 years and one of the most obvious places to put all those is in and around the Central/ Northern Docks.

This part of the city will become a destination in it's own right in my opinion and not before time. Peel first announced their Liverpool Waters Masterplan around two decades ago and it's barely progressed!

Really hope TFG are able to secure Nelson Dock and do something exciting with it.
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The issue with the 10 streets is what it wants to be. The Baltic triangle had many of the same issues and is now a successful area, but it has taken many years. The Baltic was successful because it attracted artists and creatives, those creatives then attracted supporting business and SME's looking to capitalise on ideas. Those SME's were then given a huge amount of support to grow and become successful, building into what was the success of the area.

In order for them to successfully create the 10 streets, they need to do one of two things. Allow the Baltic to develop into larger companies , maybe losing the essence of what it has become. Or, repeating the process of attracting artists and creatives, starting a years long process once again to simply mimic the baltic. The buildings or currently plan doesn't allow for expanding businesses from the Baltic to move over (they've actually been shifting to Manchester if they have outgrown the area) so Im not sure what the overall plan is.


Maybe our presence there will alter the outlook and change the expectation of the areas role within the city make-up, who knows, but it won't be easy.
 

Aries said:
uk.sports.yahoo.com

The stadium myth: new grounds won’t rescue your club – or your city

From the Premier League to MLS and the NFL, huge stadiums with gargantuan costs are a symptom of elite sport’s unrealistic promises
uk.sports.yahoo.com uk.sports.yahoo.com
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I read this and I found it incredibly bleak...

If you follow this guys opinion you'd never build anything.

Quick points:

- Architecture
The writer seems to complain about retro looks and faceless modern bowls, this makes no sense!
In my opinion, BMD is a bold ambitious architectural triumph in-keeping with the heritage of both the club and the area.

- Rejuvenation
He's correct in one way, a stadium is not a panacea for success on the field or for a city. However, if the Council and the populous invest then it will be... Take a look at the rest of Liverpool and tell me that large infrastructure doesn't rejuvenate an area (Albert Dock / Arena / Tate / Liverpool ONE). BMD is well located and in the middle of an area earmarked for redevelopment, it will anchor the development and attract it. Look at Tate Modern in London, the area will transform in the next 10 years. The examples the writer uses are not simple, Arsenal is in an area with some of the highest land costs in the world. BMD will not be like this
 
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Jacko93 said:
The issue with the 10 streets is what it wants to be. The Baltic triangle had many of the same issues and is now a successful area, but it has taken many years. The Baltic was successful because it attracted artists and creatives, those creatives then attracted supporting business and SME's looking to capitalise on ideas. Those SME's were then given a huge amount of support to grow and become successful, building into what was the success of the area.

In order for them to successfully create the 10 streets, they need to do one of two things. Allow the Baltic to develop into larger companies , maybe losing the essence of what it has become. Or, repeating the process of attracting artists and creatives, starting a years long process once again to simply mimic the baltic. The buildings or currently plan doesn't allow for expanding businesses from the Baltic to move over (they've actually been shifting to Manchester if they have outgrown the area) so Im not sure what the overall plan is.


Maybe our presence there will alter the outlook and change the expectation of the areas role within the city make-up, who knows, but it won't be easy.
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It all comes back to transportation and accessibility. Ten Streets could have been brought within range of the city centre and even the so called Knowledge Quarter where your 'creatives' are by something like the Lime Line light public transport network being developed. A catalyst.

Ultimately the failure of that to materialise comes down to local state actors who lack the dynamism and intellect to do the job they're paid for and bring home the cash from central government to make it a reality.

There's a huge deficit in human talent at the top of this region's public bodies. They're second raters and everyone knows it.
 
The binman chronicles said:
Most do, however the more picturesque the setting the more chance of increased sponsorship deals. And the nicer the surroundings the more chance people stay around the area long after the game, as it becomes its own destination. That also puts something back into our club if people are there to use our facilities.
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But as a fan you dont judge a stadium by what the area is like outside.
I judge it based on the inside of the ground. Sponsorship/pictures of a boat going past etc mean absolutly nothing to me whilst im sat in ground looking around the place
 
davek said:
It all comes back to transportation and accessibility. Ten Streets could have been brought within range of the city centre and even the so called Knowledge Quarter where your 'creatives' are by something like the Lime Line light public transport network being developed. A catalyst.

Ultimately the failure of that to materialise comes down to local state actors who lack the dynamism and intellect to do the job they're paid for and bring home the cash from central government to make it a reality.

There's a huge deficit in human talent at the top of this region's public bodies. They're second raters and everyone knows it.
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To be fair though, the ten strets would have benefitted massively from the original central Govt plans for a rail terminus on that side of he city. That existed on paper when ten streets was first developed as a strategy.

So yes transport is a catalyst and fundamental requirement, but is one out of the LG hands to some extent.

More can be done though, clearly. The city centre is moving further north as development continues though, through a lot of work with Liverpool BID and the break across Leeds street may be indistinguishable at some point in the near future.

I also agree, and difficult not to, that the quality of ministers and reps needs to be Improved.but that is a constant want/need for ever.
 

Jacko93 said:
To be fair though, the ten strets would have benefitted massively from the original central Govt plans for a rail terminus on that side of he city. That existed on paper when ten streets was first developed as a strategy.

So yes transport is a catalyst and fundamental requirement, but is one out of the LG hands to some extent.

More can be done though, clearly. The city centre is moving further north as development continues though, through a lot of work with Liverpool BID and the break across Leeds street may be indistinguishable at some point in the near future.

I also agree, and difficult not to, that the quality of ministers and reps needs to be Improved.but that is a constant want/need for ever.
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It's inevitable when you have an anchor development like that stadium attracting all that volume of people and publicity that the space between it and the city centre will be filled in. It's just a matter of how quickly that happens - and that's largely determined by how much gumption local state actors have.

Sadly in our case we have a divvy with a Rod Hull barnet as regional authority leader who's clearly out of his depth and only fit for photo ops with real movers and shakers.
 
davek said:
It's inevitable when you have an anchor development like that stadium attracting all that volume of people and publicity that the space between it and the city centre will be filled in. It's just a matter of how quickly that happens - and that's largely determined by how much gumption local state actors have.

Sadly in our case we have a divvy with a Rod Hull barnet as regional authority leader who's clearly out of his depth and only fit for photo ops with real movers and shakers.
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Its also dependent on the strategy, which was my first point, what does Ten Streets want to be? A space for artists and creatives won't necessarily be successful because of a huge sports facility nearby, causing lots of people to walk past. Does ten streets become a centre for entertainment? Lots of bars, restaurants, comedy clubs, live music venues? How would their trade be affected by a matchday event? Could they plan far enough ahead to ensure no clashes? The ten streets has to fit into a city plan, it cant live on its own. The existence of a stadium does not make it successful, or even required, it needs to be successful in its own right, as a functioning cog in the wider city. Thas all my point was about really.
 
Tom Hughes said:
Rough areas aren't what they used to be, haha. I sometimes used to walk into to town from my old school, past the Radcliffe estate and then through the Piggeries. I doubt that there is anything remotely close in terms of roughness near County Rd or Spurs' ground. Just working class areas that look a bit tatty in parts tbh.

Location can certainly add to the whole matchday experience, and BMD will hopefully one day aspire to great things in that respect.... but the key element will always be the quality of the stadium itself. Similarly, I've never been overly drawn to stadium externals. In reality, they add little or nothing to the matchday experience, and tbh many of the greatest stadia in the world are plain to the point of austerity on the outside for that reason.

Internally, the side stands at NWHL are far superior to those at BMD. Corporate contained in their own dedicated tiers overlapping with 80 super suites also in their own tier. All over more levels. Our South Stand is much smaller than theirs, but I prefer the way ours turns the corners. If our South Stand is ever extended by 10 rows, as Binman showed previously, then that could really sway it. Of course for flexibility NWHL easily trumps BMD due to the moving pitch.
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A counterpoint to that argument Tom might be how many of the greatest matchday atmospheres are generated by pretty basic internal designs/bowls. While the NWHL and NFL Stadiums are definitely more spectacular than ours, I don't know any that are famous for the atmosphere they create.

This is where I'm hoping Dan Meis has got it right. BMD will hopefully become known as a bear-pit in terms of intimidating atmosphere, rather than a spectacular & luxurious stadium with multiple levels and hospitality sections
 
Jacko93 said:
Its also dependent on the strategy, which was my first point, what does Ten Streets want to be? A space for artists and creatives won't necessarily be successful because of a huge sports facility nearby, causing lots of people to walk past. Does ten streets become a centre for entertainment? Lots of bars, restaurants, comedy clubs, live music venues? How would their trade be affected by a matchday event? Could they plan far enough ahead to ensure no clashes? The ten streets has to fit into a city plan, it cant live on its own. The existence of a stadium does not make it successful, or even required, it needs to be successful in its own right, as a functioning cog in the wider city. Thas all my point was about really.
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In every description of a club like St Pauli I've read there's a symbiosis between their stadium and the bohemian community.

I dont think there's anything necessarily mutually exclusive about the two constituencies.

I'm sure there'll be many other examples in football where they thrive close to each other.
 

davek said:
In every description of a club like St Pauli I've read there's a symbiosis between their stadium and the bohemian community.

I dont think there's anything necessarily mutually exclusive about the two constituencies.

I'm sure there'll be many other examples in football where they thrive close to each other.
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Its important to note that the Reeperbahn, the street that built up the identity of the community that St Pauli FC has grown up in, existed first.

Anyway, this risks being dragged far away from.the original point, which I referred to in my last post.
 

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