2023/24 Sean Dyche

[Tin-Tin]

It's not just technical ability ( although obviously you are right about that ) it's about a coach indoctrinating patterns of play and creating a non defensive mindset

Exactly. Which is why you see lower league teams playing decent stuff too.

Some people on here would have us believe we need to sign a load of world class players to be able to put 10-15 passes together. Players need coaching. Dyche seems to focus everything on defending, running, positioning. There isnt any time left for on the ball work or passing etc.

My biggest issue with Dyche staying is that I believe we will struggle to attract any quality with him here, especially attacking quality. No young midfielder/attacker is going to see themselves developing by chasing a ball all game, defending for the most part and chasing or watching long balls.

The longer we stay with him, especially at a point where we are financially healthier, the further behind we will fall imo.

 

[chippy1722]

Exactly. Which is why you see lower league teams playing decent stuff too.

Some people on here would have us believe we need to sign a load of world class players to be able to put 10-15 passes together. Players need coaching. Dyche seems to focus everything on defending, running, positioning. There isnt any time left for on the ball work or passing etc.

My biggest issue with Dyche staying is that I believe we will struggle to attract any quality with him here, especially attacking quality. No young midfielder/attacker is going to see themselves developing by chasing a ball all game, defending for the most part and chasing or watching long balls.

The longer we stay with him, especially at a point where we are financially healthier, the further behind we will fall imo.

Dyche is a dinosaur, set in his ways and he won’t change. Points wise he’s done well here so can’t knock him for that.

If we want a manager to play a more attractive style, we need one with a bit of bottle, in our position that will take a younger manager possibly from abroad or the championship.

 

[Ruairi77]

In this sense it's where Dyche is a dinosaur. In the Dyche set up, the job of the full back is solely to defend. It's not to get forward. At all. And that makes it much tougher for us to create chances consistently.

On a better side with better footballers, that would be way too conservative.

But in a side like ours, that's pragmatic.

Sure, I'd like to see more flair against lesser sides, particularly at home. I just don't see that happening unless our league position is more secured

but thats the thing. He should be able to set up a system where when Myko pushes forward, someone is covering for him. But even when both he and McNeill have the ball on the wing, they don't seem to know how to play together so...
McNeill gets the ball and instead of darting behind him, myko stays on his defensive side. McNeill passes to Myko who passes to gana or Tarkowsky who looks to see if theres a right winger available but there never is so it goes through a combo of garner/branthwaite/godfrey before going back to Pickford who smashes it up to our lone striker who cant get on it and the opposition build.
When we're not defending, thats about 60% of our game. 10%more is trying to kick it off someone to win a throw or corner.

At one point in the first half against Brighton Tarkowski had a lovely cross field pass to Myko who was in space, he then put in a great cross.
These players are well capable of playing better football, theyre just coached not to.

 

[Delargeinho]

Let's take a look at this squad, shall we? And you tell me how Dyche is doing it wrong

LB - Mykolenko. Pre-Dyche many wanted to run him out of town. He's now a very solid premier league fullback
CB - Tarkowski. Old school warrior. A centre-backs centre back. Limited "modern" CB
CB - Branthwaite. Arguably our best player from a modern footballing perspective. Actually, probably not even arguably. He is
RB - Coleman is STILL our best all around option there, and he's pushing 50. Patterson has limitations in defence/positionally. Godfrey has been doing a job, but has zero going forward, even if Dyche were to ever let him off the leash
CM - Gana. Pure destroyer. Elite even if this was his only job. Horrific on the ball
CM - Garner. Perhaps, one day, could be a solid mid table box to box midfielder for a team pushing for Europe. Not a world beater. But solid.
CM - Onana. Raw but does things the rest of the team cannot do. Is able to drive forward and pick the occasional pass. Will need to develop to get more goals. Terrible shot.
Wings - Harrison and McNeil. Two of the slowest wide players in the premier league. Both excellent tracking back. Both with the occasional wand of a left foot. Bottom half premier league players
Off striker - Doucoure. Let's face it that's what he is. Horrific with the ball at his feet. Has an uncanny ability to get into the right position to score goals, feed off scraps. Has an engine. Not a technical footballer by any stretch
Striker - DCL. Good in the air while holding up play. Terrible in the air while trying to score goals. No shot to speak of. Even during his purple patch under Carlo, it wasn't all that convincing. But he's still our best striker.

How would any other manager scrape more points with this squad playing better football?

Long term, I can't imagine anyone on this board wants Dyche. We want better football, that's for sure.

But for now, I can't imagine anyone else doing better with what we got

Good defence, a hard-working team and set pieces danger are something to build on and shouldn't be neglected in future. Dyche will never be the manager who makes us into Brighton 2.0, playing a high line with a lot of possession. Tbf, I don't see this style suited for the current squad, but surely other managers would have done better in the attack. No one wants to see this style till 2034.

Our main focus this summer should be wing and central attacking midfield, 4 players are likely to go with Danjuma, Harrison, Delle and Gomes. I just hope any Onana/Branthwaite money will not be used on Harrison. As the budget won't be much higher than that.

 

[Delargeinho]

but thats the thing. He should be able to set up a system where when Myko pushes forward, someone is covering for him. But even when both he and McNeill have the ball on the wing, they don't seem to know how to play together so...
McNeill gets the ball and instead of darting behind him, myko stays on his defensive side. McNeill passes to Myko who passes to gana or Tarkowsky who looks to see if theres a right winger available but there never is so it goes through a combo of garner/branthwaite/godfrey before going back to Pickford who smashes it up to our lone striker who cant get on it and the opposition build.
When we're not defending, thats about 60% of our game. 10%more is trying to kick it off someone to win a throw or corner.

At one point in the first half against Brighton Tarkowski had a lovely cross field pass to Myko who was in space, he then put in a great cross.
These players are well capable of playing better football, theyre just coached not to.

We could play better football than in the last few games for sure. We got 9 goals more than last season after 26 games better, but there is improvement to be done. Defence is the strongest part of the squad. Surprisingly, we are 4th in the league for the most winning possession in the final third, despite playing low block for most of the game. I would not try to play high-line possession with this squad though. I see this squad as rather suited for pressing high in certain situations and then quick-forward play using wings, but also using fullbacks, add more short passing and possession at times. Long balls are good as in the described situation with Tarks and McNeil, but not only those.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

That is a very simplistic interpretation of what he said. I think anybody with half a brain and without an agenda would be able to understand what was meant tbh.

Ok lad

 

[Ruairi77]

We could play better football than in the last few games for sure. We got 9 goals more than last season after 26 games better, but there is improvement to be done. Defence is the strongest part of the squad. Surprisingly, we are 4th in the league for the most winning possession in the final third, despite playing low block for most of the game. I would not try to play high-line possession with this squad though. I see this squad as rather suited for pressing high in certain situations and then quick-forward play using wings, but also using fullbacks, add more short passing and possession at times. Long balls are good as in the described situation with Tarks and McNeil, but not only those.

We were doing alright till the fulham cup game and then the wheels came off.
What worries me is that we failed to capitalize on our good form.
I dont think they should play high line posession either but he has to figure out how to get that defensive team to attack better.
Sounds simple and it probably is, I just dont think he's a good attacking coach, as is evident by our complete inability to counter attack.
We let other teams have the possession which is fine but they also seem to have figured out our attacking plan, leaving us solely reliant on set pieces which are harder for the opposition to coach, if that makes any sense.

West ham at home with a bit of pressure off will be a real barometer.

 

[twoblue]

Actually I think it's about your appetite for risk

Which of the 3 do I feel more comfortable with in regards to staying up

- Dyche stays and continues doing what he needs to do to get the points needed, crap football and major flaws and all. The risk is the current run continues long enough to leave us sitting in the bottom 3 say in April

- Dyche changes up and makes us more expansive and pushing forward more with the risk of leaving us more open in defense

- Dyche is sacked, and we wait for our incompetent mess of a club to appoint somebody else to try wring a few extra points out of our poor squad with the risk the appointment is bad and their ideas on how to get us playing better don't work or don't work right away and need time


I still feel waaay more comfortable with the first option, regardless of the flaws and our form

Thing is if Dyche stays and we continue our points run rate then it’s one thing than we move up the table a place or two. Like I said, everyone’s aim was to stay up in August, now we are upset not to be midtable,

Exactly. Which is why you see lower league teams playing decent stuff too.

Some people on here would have us believe we need to sign a load of world class players to be able to put 10-15 passes together. Players need coaching. Dyche seems to focus everything on defending, running, positioning. There isnt any time left for on the ball work or passing etc.

My biggest issue with Dyche staying is that I believe we will struggle to attract any quality with him here, especially attacking quality. No young midfielder/attacker is going to see themselves developing by chasing a ball all game, defending for the most part and chasing or watching long balls.

The longer we stay with him, especially at a point where we are financially healthier, the further behind we will fall imo.

the quality of opposition affects the style of play.
Keane would be a baller in the championship.
Everyone was saying Kompany had showed Dyche up last year… this years not so easy for him though.

 

[Toffeepot]

Dyche is a dinosaur, set in his ways and he won’t change. Points wise he’s done well here so can’t knock him for that.

If we want a manager to play a more attractive style, we need one with a bit of bottle, in our position that will take a younger manager possibly from abroad or the championship.

Leicester took a gamble on Pep's assistant and they played with way more bravery tonight than we do, look what gambling on Arteta has done for Arsenal.
Dyche has a lot of credit in the bank for me but I would like to watch a game where the entire 11 we're playing against don't seem better passers than our entire team.
Brighton were missing a lot of first teamers the other day and it was painful to watch at times. Their goalie has crisper, more confident passes
That is down to coaching and if Dyche wants the target man style and winning second balls he needs to get runners off Dom, otherwise we look ridiculous

 

[cantlivewithem]

we aren't creating all that many clear cut chances but the fact is when we do we don't put them away. If we had clinical finishers in our team we would be in the top 10. We have the 4th best defensive record but the third worst goal scoring record. That's the issue. W are creating enough to score enough goals but cant finish. I will continue to back the manager whilst this is our situation. When we have goal scoring options and we arent creating opportunities then thats when i will start losing support.

 

[Gilbert..]

Leicester took a gamble on Pep's assistant and they played with way more bravery tonight than we do, look what gambling on Arteta has done for Arsenal.
Dyche has a lot of credit in the bank for me but I would like to watch a game where the entire 11 we're playing against don't seem better passers than our entire team.
Brighton were missing a lot of first teamers the other day and it was painful to watch at times. Their goalie has crisper, more confident passes
That is down to coaching and if Dyche wants the target man style and winning second balls he needs to get runners off Dom, otherwise we look ridiculous

Why does that come into it. We beat them there 1-5 last season and they had nobody missing. They're a strong team at home and dyche has gone there twice and not lost either game. There's someone in this thread earlier today complaining that we only beat newcastle in the last 10 minutes so we were technically quite lucky. I mean wtf.
Everton away from home have been ridiculous for quite a few years. An absolute soft touch on the road.. We're not now. Fck it im going to give him a bit of credit for that.

 

[Gilbert..]

we aren't creating all that many clear cut chances but the fact is when we do we don't put them away. If we had clinical finishers in our team we would be in the top 10. We have the 4th best defensive record but the third worst goal scoring record. That's the issue. W are creating enough to score enough goals but cant finish. I will continue to back the manager whilst this is our situation. When we have goal scoring options and we arent creating opportunities then thats when i will start losing support.

Had a look yesterday at the chances created. We are bang in the middle of chances created table. Above a few teams that surprised me.
4 goals between all the strikers is as pitiful as you can get. dyche gets a lot of the blame for that but they have to have a good look at themselves. Sheff uniteds striker has as many goals this season as calvert lewin and beto combined. Pathetic.

 

[dannyboy]

For me there's obvious stages that teams should go through in order to improve. Remove the points deduction and Dyche is well on track to having a good season in the circumstances our club currently finds itself.

Right now, we should be lower mid table which is a big improvement on back to back relegation battles. Granted, the football has been basic at times but that's the usual formula for any side looking to improve down at the bottom. Obviously you get other teams who try to play in a more expansive way, but while they get plaudits they also find them themselves getting relegated more often than not.

The challenge for Dyche next year (all being well) is to expand the style of play and improve the attack.

 

[pfim]

Had a look yesterday at the chances created. We are bang in the middle of chances created table. Above a few teams that surprised me.
4 goals between all the strikers is as pitiful as you can get. dyche gets a lot of the blame for that but they have to have a good look at themselves. Sheff uniteds striker has as many goals this season as calvert lewin and beto combined. Pathetic.

When we’re truly counter attacking, forcing mistakes high up the pitch and creating chances, that’s just as exciting to me as watching a club like Brighton.

We haven’t been like that for a few weeks. It started with not finishing chances, the past few matches it’s actually lack of chance creation. It stems from absences and lack of options in the midfield 4/5. We lack talent in the wings, consistency in CM and the issues up top are well known.

 

[bicycleheader]

For me there's obvious stages that teams should go through in order to improve. Remove the points deduction and Dyche is well on track to having a good season in the circumstances our club currently finds itself.

Right now, we should be lower mid table which is a big improvement on back to back relegation battles. Granted, the football has been basic at times but that's the usual formula for any side looking to improve down at the bottom. Obviously you get other teams who try to play in a more expansive way, but while they get plaudits they also find them themselves getting relegated more often than not.

The challenge for Dyche next year (all being well) is to expand the style of play and improve the attack.

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with the last part and next seasons challenge

Assuming we stay up, the likelihood seems we have very little if any money to spend and have plenty of contracts ending,

As such there’s no guarantee we will be any better off as a squad, maybe we could be weaker.

If that’s the case I would say his challenge is the same as this season. Get enough points to be above three other teams, whatever way you see fit

I don’t think majority want him here long term or need him “progressing” things on the pitch in this period. They want him to keep us up. That’s all.

Let the building of something new happen if we manage to get new owners who don’t actually make things worse. Which also doesn’t seem a given.

(In fact the strong possibility we may be both broke for a while AND still in a precarious position in regards to the ownership makes me think even more strongly that the fans acting like the current situation for the club is normal and calling for a new manager and more entertainment are really not seeing how bad things are, which I understand in a way, easier not to worry about it all and just focus on complaining about the footy and the manager.)