or if you don't like spotify:
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vR0xUNjA2OTkyMDU2Ng/episode/MTg5MDMzNGUtOWU4My0xMWVlLWI1NDUtMDNkOWRkZDUyMTkx?sa=X&ved=0CAgQuIEEahcKEwiI6faG8cCDAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQLA
or a couple of youtube snippets from the same thing interview: