Zatara
Player Valuation: £100m
I was posting from my phone previously, and placating him a bit as a result by asking some questions. As usual very little answers were apparent beyond rude and unnecessary digs.
Anyway to address some of the substance behind the what he's saying (as there is a lot of 2+2=37) going on. Certain things can be true simultaneously. The credit arrangement we have is far from ideal, but is unrelated to whether or not Usmanov is helping to infuence and/or bankroll the project in the background- or indeed if he will come into the foreground.
It seems a very odd detail to get focussed on. The club is not run sustainably at present. The only other examples of a club ran in a similar way over the last 20 years were Manchester City and Chelsea- who also both ran clubs which for long periods looked wholly unsustainably in the short term, to build something in the long term that was viable and would pay off. This is not unusual for shareholders /owners to take this view at all. As has been stated a lot, for many years Amazon was ran at a loss but more and more people bought in. Tesla is another that was run at a loss yet there have been no shortage of shareholders willing to invest. Essentially they see the long term reward as outweighing the short term turbulence.
That we keep spending money, every summer, year on year that organically the business can't support would seem to me to be a clearer indication that we have significant backing from a wealthy individual(s) than the level of repayment due on a particular bridging loan. As far as I'm aware the money Moshiri puts into the club, initially as debt, to be converted as equity I beliueve is lent to the club at 0% anyway.
I also saw the lad in question stating that this didn't count as he coverted into equity. But again objectively, the club is not worth the money he converted into equity. I believe the last £200m took him from around the low 80's into the 90's in terms of a percentage. That would put an implied valuation onthe ground of about 2bn. It is a wild over valuation of the business in most conventional senses. It is essentially a gift to get around FFP. The club not Moshiri benefits from this.
As a final aside, 7% is not even that high to borrow at present, especially if it's fixed. The libor rate is likely to go up at some point, and everyone is ecpected the return of some inflation. To give some context, Amazon borrow money at around 8%. Nobody would use this as evidence that Jeff Bezos was not in charge of Amazon. He could fund many of the growth projects with hos own cash, but chooses to borrow at 8%. This is not uncommon.
So I have no idea how involved Usmanov is, but clearly there is some quite serious financial backing occurring.
I quoted you about 7 pages back not realising how quickly this would escalate...
@gwladysnight im regularly encountering institutions lending anywhere from 6-9% at the moment to other institutions and corporates who are happily accepting. These are on a rolling month to month basis with tiny penalties for settling before the annual term.
Im still waiting with anticipation for the 3% institutional loans you were bringing up many many pages ago...in the present tense.
Or were they in your examples of many years ago?
If so, im a bit confused what your point was?