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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3


longers said:



How much of a bell do you have to be to go to your barber with your champs league medal you got for doing nothing and then think... you know what would be cool and make killer content ? me wearing a medal and miming grime music whilst my barber films me.
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You can see why this lad has completely flopped as a footballer from this video alone. The lad is nearly 21 and still hasn't scored a first team team goal in any top level cup or league competition. He's the archetype of what young English players don't deliver on promise. Probably made 5-10m quid from Liverpool while he was there as well. Absolutely set up for life for doing sweet FA.
 

catcherintherye said:
I sometimes like Adrian Durham, but for the most part left well alone.

Had Italian friends growing up, who always told me about the culture around Italian football. Proper honest discussion and debate. Liekwise in Spain, it's held akin to to opera and theatre.

What we get here is the Sun-ification of discussion. Just a rolling list of headlines and shock jock statements to win some inane banter war.

There was a time a few years back, that you sort of thought fan media would do better. But in many ways thats now gone worse than the TV companies. Idiots on a screen screaming at a camera about how unhappy and angry they are, in their own bedroom.

As for Liverpool and that specific piece, that they are having to put such articles out, tells you everything you need to know about where they are at though. It will always be sychophantic, like I said to you the other day, they have always been the establishment club of the British state (like Rangers North of the border). Souness, Emlyn Hughes, Keegan, Paisley were all massively in bed with Thatcher and good mates with her when they were screwing the city (and therein a lot of their fans over). That will never change, but what they are saying is now massively different,

It's gone from "greatest team thats ever played" (despite the fact it has done nothing any other side has done previously, no treble, no double, no season unbeaten, no breaking the points record set etc) to "Jurgen deserves a medal for being 6th/7th in the league". I imagine you are quite defensive of Pep, but even with your injuries last season (every bit as bad as theirs this season) had you fallen to 6th or 7th I doubt you'd have had an analysis of "he deserves a medal". It's fair enough to say that you'd want him to stay, and that overall he deserves a poor season, but again the commentary is rubbish.

I also think it's instructive of where they are at. A serious team, with serious and high expectations would not be sticking that stuff out, or allowing their mates in the media to stick it out. As a player you here that, and it just tells you that actually 6/7th is good enough, and the current run is good enough. You're essentially giving players an excuse, and footballers in the end are just humans, and if you give us an excuse it's likely we will take it.

You can see the difference between them and a serial winner Roy Keane in mindset. It's not bias from Keane, christ knows he's buried enough United players, but you can see, his expectation's are high and he wants to win, or at the very least compete to win every season. He was only partially correct with bad champions, they are going to probably be the worst champions of most of our lifetimes in how big the drop offin points and position is going to be. And no amount of Darren Lewis telling them they're great and deserve a medal is going to change it.
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What I find interesting about the sports media is the blatant bias seems to be predominately in the football press. If you read or listen to the sports reports of rugby, cricket, cycling, tennis etc the hacks in general report what they see and the facts of the game / match rather than their own twisted biased version (maybe because football is by far the most popular sport in the UK?). As you say Guardiola took a hammering last year for dropping off after winning it twice on the trot and we still finished second in the league. If Liverpool don't finish in the top 4 then it can only be judged as nothing less than an abject failure. The hacks can spout all of the nonsense they want, but they also know it. They just refuse to acknowledge it or accept it for some unfathomable reason that Liverpool are beyond criticism at any time. Weird. Everyone can see that Klopp is a short term 'impact' manager. He has won one (yes one) domestic trophy in 5 years whilst spending very serious money and having the highest wage bill in British football. That just doesn't stack up when measured against Ferguson, Wenger or Guardiola - no where near it. Darren Lewis and Ollie Holt can churn out their fanboy / cheerleader propaganda all day long, but the average football fan who has a good interest in it and follows it knows the truth.
 
PaulPowersTash said:
What I find interesting about the sports media is the blatant bias seems to be predominately in the football press. If you read or listen to the sports reports of rugby, cricket, cycling, tennis etc the hacks in general report what they see and the facts of the game / match rather than their own twisted biased version (maybe because football is by far the most popular sport in the UK?). As you say Guardiola took a hammering last year for dropping off after winning it twice on the trot and we still finished second in the league. If Liverpool don't finish in the top 4 then it can only be judged as nothing less than an abject failure. The hacks can spout all of the nonsense they want, but they also know it. They just refuse to acknowledge it or accept it for some unfathomable reason that Liverpool are beyond criticism at any time. Weird. Everyone can see that Klopp is a short term 'impact' manager. He has won one (yes one) domestic trophy in 5 years whilst spending very serious money and having the highest wage bill in British football. That just doesn't stack up when measured against Ferguson, Wenger or Guardiola - no where near it. Darren Lewis and Ollie Holt can churn out their fanboy / cheerleader propaganda all day long, but the average football fan who has a good interest in it and follows it knows the truth.
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The journos would have you believe LFC are the only club living through a pandemic, LFC are the only club with injuries to key players, having no fans hits LFC harder than any other club, they don't spend money like other clubs, none of their players have ever caused injury to an opponent sidelining them for a while blah blah 'kin blah..............

That Ollie Holt needs his head squashing the little tory ferret.
 
JLW said:
The journos would have you believe LFC are the only club living through a pandemic, LFC are the only club with injuries to key players, having no fans hits LFC harder than any other club, they don't spend money like other clubs, none of their players have ever caused injury to an opponent sidelining them for a while blah blah 'kin blah..............

That Ollie Holt needs his head squashing the little tory ferret.
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Their fans though would have you believe the media hate them ... I honestly don’t know how they reach that conclusion
 

Kurt. said:
Their fans though would have you believe the media hate them ... I honestly don’t know how they reach that conclusion
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I KNOW!!! wtf ive seen a load saying the pundits and media are anti Liverpool, unbelievable jeff...

I had a peep into rawk after the Leicester game for a giggle and one numpty said "refereeing decisions have been going against us for decades"
 
PaulPowersTash said:
What I find interesting about the sports media is the blatant bias seems to be predominately in the football press. If you read or listen to the sports reports of rugby, cricket, cycling, tennis etc the hacks in general report what they see and the facts of the game / match rather than their own twisted biased version (maybe because football is by far the most popular sport in the UK?). As you say Guardiola took a hammering last year for dropping off after winning it twice on the trot and we still finished second in the league. If Liverpool don't finish in the top 4 then it can only be judged as nothing less than an abject failure. The hacks can spout all of the nonsense they want, but they also know it. They just refuse to acknowledge it or accept it for some unfathomable reason that Liverpool are beyond criticism at any time. Weird. Everyone can see that Klopp is a short term 'impact' manager. He has won one (yes one) domestic trophy in 5 years whilst spending very serious money and having the highest wage bill in British football. That just doesn't stack up when measured against Ferguson, Wenger or Guardiola - no where near it. Darren Lewis and Ollie Holt can churn out their fanboy / cheerleader propaganda all day long, but the average football fan who has a good interest in it and follows it knows the truth.
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Yes I mean you are right, the discussion around those sports is conducted competely differently, and with a degree of honesty. I just think in football there is a mixture of very biased people around it, but also then very stupid people around it.

I mean you can have a subjective view as to which manager you prefer, but objectively Klopp is just nowhere near the mangers you've mentioned. I haven't even looked at Ferguson, but Pep has 29 trophies in 3 different countries. Mourinho has won 25 trophies in 4 countries. Ancelotti has won 18 trophies in 5 countries, Wenger has won 19 trophies. Klopp has won 9, in just 2 countries. I mean he's not even in the same ballpark as the managers above, objectively speaking. None of this is ever reflected though, as a handful of Kopites want to proclaim him the best manager in the world, which objectively he's not even close too.

What has happened this season too, is what David Moyes did with United on steroids. Manchester United dropped 25 points across an entire season and loads of them came in the last few games of the season when Giggs was losing to the likes of Sunderland and (newly promoted) Southampton. And Moyes was essentially given no time, had no money to spend and had just followed the greatest manager of all time. And his performance is often held up as an indicator of what a terrible manager managing a hideous season looks like.

Klopp is now running at 30 points dropped on last season, and looks set to get worse. Yet forget any sort of scrutiny or criticism in the media, you have people like Darren Lewis saying he deserves a medal. And you just know, the presenters on talksport, because they don't do their research properly will not quiz him on it, on just a fraction of the information above to ask him on what basis he arrives at that conclusion. But all it is, is a gravy train for ex pro's to spout the same subjective rubbish that belies any truth or impartiality.

This is ultimately drives fans from turning away from the game. They think all football fans are idiots, and while a section are, most aren't. If I was a Liverpool fan (and I'm sure there will be many of the brighter ones who feel the same) I'd want a discussion on what has gone wrong this year for Klopp. That's not saying I want him sacked, but ultimately, why have certain we fallen off a cliff. Even with injuries, why when we had less injuries to first teamers than City or Leicester were we played off the park with one, and collapsed in another? Why do we put out sides who cost in transfers and wages 3-4 x what say Burnley, Brighton, Southampton cost and we are losing to those games without really even threatening the opponents goal?

On the injuries, why has he run the squad into the ground? Why has he not rotated more? Why did he send several key first team players for a nothing game in Europe just to cure his own vanity? Why have we wasted money on rubbish like the Greek left back and an ill fitting vanity player in Thiago, that could have bolstered the squad?

Yet all we get is Darren Lewis going "give him a medal" for getting them to 6th.
 

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