ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[roydo]

Salah is probably (outside of Messi/CR) the most popular player in the middle east, so jersey sales (and he's a good player).
There are clubs who would still want Hazard, he could be unloaded.

Was going to mention that the pandemic might end up keeping most of them together.

You are right about Salas profile, but with the wedge Hazard would be on, plus his injury record, (out again for who knows how long), not sure there would be many willing to take him on. Bale/James type deal perhaps.

 

[PhilM]

James Pearce, who is generally the best sourced guy they've got has written an article saying missing out on top 4 would be "catastrophic".

He also says summer plans would be "drastically re-assessed" in such a scenario, and it wouldn't necessarily be about "who you could attract" but more of a question of "who you could maintain".

He is not known for negativity at all, I've never seen an article such as this in his time. He openly stated in the Sterling and Suarez saga Liverpool wouldn't sell and would add players etc. The tone, choice of words and what he's actually saying between the lines are extremely alarming in the article. It reads almost as saying "if we don't get into the top 4, expect a fire sale". I'm not sure if thats his intention, but that' how it comes across.

The question may well be "why" at this point? He is generally very close to the owners. It sounds like they are managing expectations ahead of the summer, but also preparing the ground for a tricky summer It reads like the sort of stuff we had written about us in the mid-late 90's.

I'm also very very urprised they are openly talking about missing out on the top 4 so much, and have been for weeks. They don't normally do this.

I wonder if there's genuine concern from the owners, that Klopps general messing about and pontificating may end up costing them top 4, which wil have ramification long after Klopp goes. I do wonder if many of their sponsorship deals have automatic downgrade clauses if say 30-50% range if they miss out on CL?

For owners with a model that is openly profit orientated, it is not unsurprising that they are concerned because their revenue stream is under increased risk.

The value of their major assets (their players) are likely to depreciate, so their primary model of selling to fund new acquisitions will reap less rewards.

The myth of Klopp the magician is being unravelled in front of their eyes, with players looking exhausted and disenchanted; recent acquisitions aren't great.

Lack of bums on seats, with the fans who come over a spend fair amounts on merchandise etc, will be impacting on their finances and perhaps their sponsors.

If they do not achieve CL with all the revenue it directly brings before the indirect streams (more people loving them and buying merchandise), they will suffer.

Can you see FSG being willing to strim their own profits down to help the club succeed? Maybe to an extent, but they'll want to support their wider portfolio too.

Sadly, I still think they will squeeze into the CL because of how jammy they are, but the medium-term projections may not be as rosy as they would suggest.

If Klopp goes alongside one or two of their major assets at a reduce price, you have a squad with a fair few key players who are nearly past their peak.

 

[roydo]

Can you see FSG being willing to strim their own profits down to help the club succeed? Maybe to an extent, but they'll want to support their wider portfolio too.

Which is getting mullered stateside as well.

 

[Brisan123]

I've said it loads of times with Pickford, that he wasn't my 1st choice and I've never been sold on him. I also think there was a window where he was criticised by Everton fans before the media piped in. That's not the issue now. I understand for some Evertonians he won't be forgiven for what happened at Anfield, and that he backed it up with Newcastle away (in a lot of ways a much worse performance). However some of the criticism about him, is very tainted by this.

Nick Pope made a couple of howlers for Burnley v City and they are not mentioned. Same with Henderson V Liverpool. The two goals he conceeds are easy saves. One goes through him, and one of them is a poor dink finish that he should stand up for.

I've got no skin in the game with Pickford. But he is rightly number 1. He was England man of the tournament in the most successful campaign England have had in the last 30 years. He has earned at least the next 2 tournaments as England number , and thankfully Southgate does seem to grasp this.

If there was a prime David Seaman about, then maybe you consider his position. But there really isn't.

The first WC I remember is Mexico 1970 (I was 10 )
England had Banks .Peter the cat Bonetti and Alex Stepney as their goalkeepers, with a young Shilton who had displaced Banks at Leicester as back up,
How England wish they had that calibre of GK at their disposal now

 

[catcherintherye]

RM are still wondering why they paid £130m (?) for Hazard. Not sure they either have the cash, nor the inclination to play Snap with another late 20s footballer from the PL.

I thought it was closer to 100m for Hazard mate. I mean I'll be fair to Salah and say he is a roughly equivalent asset even though Hazard was a year younger. The market will have declined around 20% this year. I expect a much bigger decline next year (the January contraction rate is coser to 65%- so about 11/3 of money spent). Even if it's just another 15-20% though, on £100m that makes him wirth around £65m. This is best case scenario though.

What we know is older players are (at or approaching 30) are experiencing the highest dips. Even if the dip is say 50% higher, that takes that 35m dip and makes it a £50m+ drop.

When you look at us picking up Allan, King and James for under £25m all aged 29 you can sort of see what is happening to the market. Compare that to 20-25m for Godfrey, who while he's a good player has not achieved what they have in the game.

And you are right to say, post Coutinho and Hazard, Madrid are very wry and Barcelona are skint.

 

[davek]

Salah is supposedly off to RM. That brings 100-150M in, the question is who are you gonna buy? Levy might give you Son for most/all of that money, but he's not as good.

He's going to have to rebuild his squad for best case senario, 1 year (they need 4th this year and hold on to their other best players). He doesn't look like he's up for it. Take Liverpool to 4th this year + next year (and we'll say QT exits in CL), "What's wrong w/ Klopp's side?" He hates that. Meanwhile you could head to Arsenal take them to 4th in 1-2 years he's a hero, and AFTV is renamed KloppVision - he loves that.

He's not up to it. In Germany he was manager of one of two teams that could win a title. And like Bayern, Dortmund sucked in a lot of young talent from Germany. He cant hack it here with any degree of competition.

Let's face it, they won the title last season because City lost focus after some outrageous decisions went against them and for Liverpool. They gave up the ghost and Liverpool never had to face any pressure on a run in that would have found Klopp out.

 

[Rook]

He's not up to it. In Germany he was manager of one of two teams that could win a title. And like Bayern, Dortmund sucked in a lot of young talent from Germany. He cant hack it here with any degree of competition.

Let's face it, they won the title last season because City lost focus after some outrageous decisions went against them and for Liverpool. They gave up the ghost and Liverpool never had to face any pressure on a run in that would have found Klopp out.

IMO City were just running on fumes last year and the beginning of this year. Last year the team looked at the table and said, we can't win this. This year even in midtable, I think the realization kicked in that they could win it w/ 85 pts.

 

[MikeH72]

Salah is supposedly off to RM. That brings 100-150M in, the question is who are you gonna buy? Levy might give you Son for most/all of that money, but he's not as good.

He's going to have to rebuild his squad for best case senario, 1 year (they need 4th this year and hold on to their other best players). He doesn't look like he's up for it. Take Liverpool to 4th this year + next year (and we'll say QT exits in CL), "What's wrong w/ Klopp's side?" He hates that. Meanwhile you could head to Arsenal take them to 4th in 1-2 years he's a hero, and AFTV is renamed KloppVision - he loves that.

I for one hope Real Madrid are not stupid enough to give them £150m for a 29 year old Salah whose pace will start to decline any season now.

 

[LEONARD]

I for one hope Real Madrid are not stupid enough to give them £150m for a 29 year old Salah whose pace will start to decline any season now.

Well mate, they managed to get £25 million for Rhian Broomhandle from Sheff Utd.

 

[This is my name]

In short they are narcissists.

LookAtMe Fc

 

[Rook]

I for one hope Real Madrid are not stupid enough to give them £150m for a 29 year old Salah whose pace will start to decline any season now.

Clubs have a tendency of talking themselves into buying that one player (HAI GILPHY!), Liverpool and Spurs are really good at this. Instead of the NOT FOR SALE AT ANY PRICE nonsense, they release to the press an outrageous price and put all the pressure on the club buying (oh they aren't paying? I guess that don't really want you after all!).

 

[Brisan123]

I did say after the West Ham/Spurs games not to get too carried away. It wasn't a case of Liverpool being good, but both of those teams veing very bad.

Brighton and City were not even at their best the last 2 games, and won at a canter. Klopp completely gave the game up, as did their players, bringing on a left back and Milner when trying to get back into the game.

I have also said for some time, this is very much a medium crisis now. It's not about 6 games, or after a player got injured. They have been getting beaten, and at times hammered since that Watford game, with the 2 Atletico games either side of it, where they were well beaten in each. That goes back a year now and probaby nearly 38 games. They are loing more than 1 point per game on last season. This is a collapse from where they were that is deeper than any single player.

The "receipts" are all there, but if you go back even 18 months ago, I had said I felt they'd win the league last season, as I felt City and them were on the same trajectory as City were, but just 12 months behind. Both of them had ageing squads, and would need a period of transition. This would be the biggest test of both managers, how they would be able to integrate newer and younger players. City dropped to around 80 points last season. I said openly thre was not a chance Liverpool would get to 90, despite themall saying they were going to blitz the league with 100 points again.

It looks to me that the "dip" that City had will be more severe for Liverpool. They will do well to get 81 points. It took Pep probbly 12-18 months from when they hit "rock bottom" to start turning things around. This I see as a best case scenario for them. They take the rest of this season and most of next to move people out and re-shape their team.

The concern will be 2 fold for them. Firstly will there be the same funding available to them as City had? And secondly, does what is a medium term blip, become a spiral and inicative of longer term decline. If they end up slipping to 70 points say, or potentially even lower and the season collapses, the idea that it can be turned around in the same time frames City had are just not the case. Factor in as well, that City will invest heavily next summer, as they haven't really done so the last couple of years.

Klopp seems to me to be a big factor in turning a medium term crisis into a spiral. He looks out of control to me in almost every interview. He makes odd decisions in games and with starting line ups. He looks slightly maniac on the touchline now, and in truth like a man who would rather be anywhere else. I know one of the Echo journalists said a while back that this could be the Dortmund final season but reverse the halves. I still think that could happen.

Even Simon Hughes, who's very connected has said, the idea that they get their players back, and the clock just goes back to 2017 again is fanciful. More and more of them are starting to wake up to the reality that this is now a medium term rebuild job.

To lose, look what Pep did with City. Developed a completely different style of player. Moved on/reduced the role of Kompany, Laporte, Silva, Jesus & Aguero and brought in 5 ot 6 new players. Are Liverpool going to be prepared to be brave enough, come the summer to move on 4 or 5 of their first choice 11 and bed in half of a new outfield team?

To the bit in bold
In previous years Liverpool would have sold star names ,Suarez, Couthino ,Torres etc. to fund the rebuild
Now who can they sell and more importantly who has the money to buy them
Real ,Barca are struggling financially and have other targets
Bayern do not spend big
PSG are more concerned about keeping Neymar and Mbappe and getting Messi on board
Salah and Mane may kick up to leave if Liverpool do not get top 4 ,thus reducing their asking price
TAA has been badly exposed as a non defending FB this year,
Keita has seen his value drop due to injury and lack of game time
They will not sell to any of their rivals in England
The only other jewels left are VVD who may not be the same player after he hurt his knee and Alisson who is now damaged goods
Add this to the fact that few clubs in a post pandemic world will have the will or the resources to pay their inflated wages and Liverpool could be stuck with this lot of players
FSG will not put their hands in their pockets and fans being out of grounds will have hit them badly ,much worse than most clubs except United

 

[Lineker]

A good number of very salient points there Catcher.
Particularly about the racism. City are owned by Arabs. Thefore it is 'dirty oil money' from brown people. That is bad.
Liverpool are owned by Americans so money generated by hedge funds and totally corrupt banks (Standard Charter) is clean money from white people. So that is good. The Guardian are pretty much openly blatant regarding their racism for Manchester City (not to mention the Daily Mail). As you say, the same with the Glaziers who have nothing short of financially raped Manchester United football club and the same is about to happen to Burnley - but hey that's OK. Nothing said by the TV & media companies at all. Infact FSG are held up as the ideal business model in football.
City have spent oodles of money, of course they have. However, so have every other club who have won the PL title. United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Blackburn and even Leicester broke FFP rules in 2013 which enabled them to get promoted and back into the PL and win the title 2 seasons later. And it will continue to stay that way. You are also correct about PL before Abramovich. United won the PL something like 8 times in 11 years (and Ferguson broke the British transfer record something like 6 times during his reign). They threw money and wages around like nobody's business and totally dominated the league. Basically, they had become the Bayern Munich of English football (ironically with very significant sponsorship money from Saudi Arabia). What a lot of people don't realise or refuse to acknowledge is that City was forced to throw the money around after the takeover as FFP was being introduced, initially to stop Chelsea and then by default City or any other club that had serious financial resources to invest. We had to buy the likes of Aguero, Yaya Toure, David Silva etc before the gates closed forever. It wasn't by choice. Everyone goes up in arms and say City have spent a billion pounds since the takeover! Yes they have but the CFG group is now valued at $4.8 billion dollars. It is completely debt free and City have made a profit year on year since 2015. To me that is extremely savvy financial investment. All done whilst the club are winning trophy after trophy. As I have posted before, just wait for the media to get their teeth in Everton when you start to win trophies and usurp your neighbours across Stanley Park. It will be relentless, day after day, week after week. There will be story after story casting dubious aspersions on how Moshri made his money and where it has come from? Your fans will be held personally responsible for any human rights abuses they can think off. Matthew Syed of The Times actually referred to City fans as 'Vicious Rats' over human rights abuses. Be ready for accusations of 'Sportswashing' and your fans will be 'PR stooges' just like me and the other odd 55,000 fans who have supported my club and your club since you were school childern. Basically it boils down to two things in my mind: The first is racisim, without a doubt. The second one is fear. The fear of the established so called 'elite' cartel clubs who are scared to death that some other club outside of their cosy, corrupt group may come along and take their place at the top table and force them off the gravy train that they believe they are entitled to.

I'm going to disagree on the racism aspect of it. Roman Abramovi c h was not seen as good clean money. The issue is the huge sums of money changing the face of the league and the fact that abramovisch is shady and in the case of city's ownership the human rights issues.

 

[Rook]

You are right about Salas profile, but with the wedge Hazard would be on, plus his injury record, (out again for who knows how long), not sure there would be many willing to take him on. Bale/James type deal perhaps.

if no one wants him then come home Eden, we have James to feed you. You old teammate Ross could vouch for our training tables.

 

[Rook]

Bayern do not spend big

Their transfer policy is to clean out any other Bundesliga upstart clubs and potential challengers in the transfer window. All of the other german clubs are totally fine w/ this.