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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3


Bullens Rd said:
It's not though. The opposition player touched his hand, that's it. He didn't pull him back or yank his shirt, he literally touched his hand. Under any normal circumstance you don't even feel that, never mind have your entire body collapse to the floor in agony. I get it though, the referee wants you to think that he's seen Salah be grabbed and that's why he awarded the penalty. But that didn't happen.
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When Neiasse got banned they said there was contact but he didn't go down in a natural way, well looking at Salah I see it's pretty much the same thing there was contact but he didn't go down in a natural way. I can only speak for myself here but when I was playing and someone tugged at an arm it never caused my legs to give way and fall to the ground.
 
I did say after the West Ham/Spurs games not to get too carried away. It wasn't a case of Liverpool being good, but both of those teams veing very bad.

Brighton and City were not even at their best the last 2 games, and won at a canter. Klopp completely gave the game up, as did their players, bringing on a left back and Milner when trying to get back into the game.

I have also said for some time, this is very much a medium crisis now. It's not about 6 games, or after a player got injured. They have been getting beaten, and at times hammered since that Watford game, with the 2 Atletico games either side of it, where they were well beaten in each. That goes back a year now and probaby nearly 38 games. They are loing more than 1 point per game on last season. This is a collapse from where they were that is deeper than any single player.

The "receipts" are all there, but if you go back even 18 months ago, I had said I felt they'd win the league last season, as I felt City and them were on the same trajectory as City were, but just 12 months behind. Both of them had ageing squads, and would need a period of transition. This would be the biggest test of both managers, how they would be able to integrate newer and younger players. City dropped to around 80 points last season. I said openly thre was not a chance Liverpool would get to 90, despite themall saying they were going to blitz the league with 100 points again.

It looks to me that the "dip" that City had will be more severe for Liverpool. They will do well to get 81 points. It took Pep probbly 12-18 months from when they hit "rock bottom" to start turning things around. This I see as a best case scenario for them. They take the rest of this season and most of next to move people out and re-shape their team.

The concern will be 2 fold for them. Firstly will there be the same funding available to them as City had? And secondly, does what is a medium term blip, become a spiral and inicative of longer term decline. If they end up slipping to 70 points say, or potentially even lower and the season collapses, the idea that it can be turned around in the same time frames City had are just not the case. Factor in as well, that City will invest heavily next summer, as they haven't really done so the last couple of years.

Klopp seems to me to be a big factor in turning a medium term crisis into a spiral. He looks out of control to me in almost every interview. He makes odd decisions in games and with starting line ups. He looks slightly maniac on the touchline now, and in truth like a man who would rather be anywhere else. I know one of the Echo journalists said a while back that this could be the Dortmund final season but reverse the halves. I still think that could happen.

Even Simon Hughes, who's very connected has said, the idea that they get their players back, and the clock just goes back to 2017 again is fanciful. More and more of them are starting to wake up to the reality that this is now a medium term rebuild job.

To lose, look what Pep did with City. Developed a completely different style of player. Moved on/reduced the role of Kompany, Laporte, Silva, Jesus & Aguero and brought in 5 ot 6 new players. Are Liverpool going to be prepared to be brave enough, come the summer to move on 4 or 5 of their first choice 11 and bed in half of a new outfield team?
 
riddick said:
Repeatedly this summer there were scores of Liverpool and others saying how James isn't anywhere near the level that Thiago is. "You just don't understand what his role is and how important he is compared to what James is. James has never been world class like Thiago".

James is thrice the player that Thiago supposedly is meant to be imo.
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Most of those people have evidently;
1) Never played football to any kind of standard (and I'm not talking county, level or whatever here, just beyond 5 a side they wont have played the game
2) Fundamentally do not understand the basics of how football works. If you do say UEFA B license training, a big point is made of shape (pressure, cover, depth) and the importance of incisive pases in the opponents final 3rd, compared to someone who can recycle possession. Again this is not like elite coaching, it's just common sense.

Anyone can pass the ball side ways in front of opponents (relatively speaking). The special players are the ones who can pass through defences.

As I said at the time, it's not even close between the 2. None of Liverpools players are as good at James (as he proved when he took the mickey out of them the last time Madrid player there) and Thiago is not even their best player.
 

NeroCeasar said:
Friend of mine reckoned yesterday showed just how good he is, they were in the game until he went off at which point their mf fell apart, therefore showing his importance to them and backing up the he is the best mf in Europe argument.
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This is the game that City had a goal disalloaed and missed a penalty too? Klopp too him off, because he was inneffective and felt Shaqiri would be a better option. Had Thiago been on the pitch, hed have made no difference to the goals, and they'd still have lost 4-1. I mean let that sink in, their manager felt Shaqiri was a better option, out of position, than Thiago. Shaqiri is a horrendous footballer.
 
Mrtallywacker said:
I imagine a cup of bovril and horse crap must have a very distinct aroma my son.
God bless.
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I used to love Bovril following Shamrock Rovers in the 70s and 80s. Can't remember Bovril at Goodison - probably too many beers in the Winslow!!

With summer football now - well March to October - in the League of Ireland, not as many cold days.

I still keep a jar in my kitchen though - great cure for a hangover, and for helping me to sleep!
 

catcherintherye said:
You're not wrong on that. Soem of the stuff about City, not even as a City fan, is ridiculous. Look I'm not a City lover either, I've always felt Everton were at it's core a much bigger club. I got frustrated with City's chase of Lescott and loved going to your ground and winning regularly as much as anyone. I'm not some biased pro-City merchant.

Some of the criticism is absolutely ludicrous though. Phrases like financial "doping". It's an insult to actual doping to start inserting it into spaces it doesn't belong. I remember asking someone what "financial doping" meant- and essentially what it meant was spending money. Spending money is now viewed as cheating. City don't even spend that much, United and Liverpool spend more than City on wages, and in United's case transfers. And they are the clubs that bang on about it the most. If a fella who supports Burnley, or Brighton or whoever says it's unfair, I can kind of understand that, but you've got fans from two teams who spend more money, complaining about anoter who invests in line with them. And they have the audacity to make out it deserves the same candor as "doping".

I mean I was critical of how much City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea spent. However you can't differentiate between them. You also have to acknwoledge spending money is not a crime as comparable as cheating by using illegal drugs.

The other bit of it, is sponsorships. So like United and Liverpool gets sponsors partially through connections they make, the fact their owners and senior execs will know people on other boards etc- the old you scratch my back I scratch your back kind of thing. Thats considered sacrosanct. But when a brown person (and lets be honest here, a lot of the criticism comes down to that as well- good old fashioned racism) wants to do the same, it's again beyond the pale.

The entire business eco system we live under exists due to shareholder investment. It's not an optional extra, it's a central part of what makes the capitalist economy we live in function. Shareholders will invest profits and funds into a business, with the aim of building a successful company. It pushes innovation, quality etc. Yet in football, the powers that be seem to have ruled it should be made illegal. Absolutely crackers.

Objectively, the best thing that happened to the PL was Abramovich. The leagues was about to tank at that point and fall behind. The 2nd best thing was City's takeover. Both of them put so much money into the football eco structure, they have allowed it to become the best league in the world, which everyone has benefitted from. That this level of analysis is beyond most people on the edges of football- but who are all happy to take their cut of the bigger cake thats been created is highly hypocritical. Your FSG's and your Glaziers are takers. They suck out of football. They don't put anything in.
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A good number of very salient points there Catcher.
Particularly about the racism. City are owned by Arabs. Thefore it is 'dirty oil money' from brown people. That is bad.
Liverpool are owned by Americans so money generated by hedge funds and totally corrupt banks (Standard Charter) is clean money from white people. So that is good. The Guardian are pretty much openly blatant regarding their racism for Manchester City (not to mention the Daily Mail). As you say, the same with the Glaziers who have nothing short of financially raped Manchester United football club and the same is about to happen to Burnley - but hey that's OK. Nothing said by the TV & media companies at all. Infact FSG are held up as the ideal business model in football.
City have spent oodles of money, of course they have. However, so have every other club who have won the PL title. United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Blackburn and even Leicester broke FFP rules in 2013 which enabled them to get promoted and back into the PL and win the title 2 seasons later. And it will continue to stay that way. You are also correct about PL before Abramovich. United won the PL something like 8 times in 11 years (and Ferguson broke the British transfer record something like 6 times during his reign). They threw money and wages around like nobody's business and totally dominated the league. Basically, they had become the Bayern Munich of English football (ironically with very significant sponsorship money from Saudi Arabia). What a lot of people don't realise or refuse to acknowledge is that City was forced to throw the money around after the takeover as FFP was being introduced, initially to stop Chelsea and then by default City or any other club that had serious financial resources to invest. We had to buy the likes of Aguero, Yaya Toure, David Silva etc before the gates closed forever. It wasn't by choice. Everyone goes up in arms and say City have spent a billion pounds since the takeover! Yes they have but the CFG group is now valued at $4.8 billion dollars. It is completely debt free and City have made a profit year on year since 2015. To me that is extremely savvy financial investment. All done whilst the club are winning trophy after trophy. As I have posted before, just wait for the media to get their teeth in Everton when you start to win trophies and usurp your neighbours across Stanley Park. It will be relentless, day after day, week after week. There will be story after story casting dubious aspersions on how Moshri made his money and where it has come from? Your fans will be held personally responsible for any human rights abuses they can think off. Matthew Syed of The Times actually referred to City fans as 'Vicious Rats' over human rights abuses. Be ready for accusations of 'Sportswashing' and your fans will be 'PR stooges' just like me and the other odd 55,000 fans who have supported my club and your club since you were school childern. Basically it boils down to two things in my mind: The first is racisim, without a doubt. The second one is fear. The fear of the established so called 'elite' cartel clubs who are scared to death that some other club outside of their cosy, corrupt group may come along and take their place at the top table and force them off the gravy train that they believe they are entitled to.
 

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