Burka ban

[RFUS]

You should be able to wear whatever you want, but you should also be allowed to be asked to take things off in places like airports. If these things are covering up your face or something. I'm not talking about pants and underwear. Although that's an interesting train of thought I may explore tonight.

Anyway, whenever something like this comes up, I like to remind myself of the dictionary definition of equality:

the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability.

And I wouldn't try to board a plane with something covering my face. That makes passport control a little tricky. Religious reasons are religious reasons, and I've always believed you should be allowed to do, wear and be whatever you want, so long as it doesn't impact other people negatively. Now, I would expect to be able to walk the street wearing whatever I wanted. Be that a 2 piece swimsuit, a dalmatian costume or really fugly trabs. Really, wearing a burka in the street should not impact anyone negatively. So I think banning them outright is ridiculous, and an infringement upon really basic rights.

The normal protocol here and everywhere else I know of, at least when it comes to passport control in an airport, is that people wearing things like burkas have to remove them to match up with their passport photo, which also must show their face. I don't see then what the point of this ruling is. I'm not sure of all the laws in France right now, but it makes more sense to have laws that make anyone wearing a burka or the like, have to remove it for anything where seeing their face is necessary. If the laws weren't already like that, then they should have been. But just banning them outright...

I think the French have ballsed this one up. I don't see what they can really get out of it, besides controversy. Security reasons aside -- which could be dealt in ways with a little less overkill -- are people really that bothered about people wearing burkas out in the street? I mean, don't get me wrong, I think burkas are a ridiculous element of the religion, and they highlight an archaic view of women. But if Tom Cruise is allowed to believe in space warlocks, then everyday muslim women should be allowed to cover their faces in public.

 

[Nordecke]

I totally agree with the French. They should be banned here also. If you want to wear one. Go live in a county where society demands them. Not Herr.

Absolutely agree.. Good on the French

 

[Goat]

Oh shut up and read the rest of his post, you big ninny.

1) I dont take orders from YOU
2) No
3) Who are you?

 

[bluebloodinmyveins]

You live in a country you live by their rules.

I'm sick of us having to move the goalposts to accommodate people who say they hate our country anyway. The French have it right.

 

[Nordecke]

I bet these protesters are dog ugly.. Which would explain the difficult questions..

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I'm against the obscuring the face via dress for two main reasons. The first is how socially detrimental it is (you simply can't talk to someone wearing this type of thing, in the same way you wouldn't talk to a guy wearing a balaclava whilst dressed in camouflage), but secondly - and perhaps more importantly - I'm against it because Islamic women are often made to wear it against their will, and have no say in the matter.

No matter whether you're pro- or anti-Islam in general, there's no denying that is a very male orientated social way of life, and we have different values in the western world. Therefore, due to there being no practical way to know for certain whether a woman is voluntarily wearing the burka or not, I support the outright ban of this and other similar types of clothing.

It's one of the rare occurrences where a ban actually promotes the free will of the people it affects. Sacrificing the burka will in turn provide greater freedoms for Islamic women.

That nails it.

 

[RFUS]

You live in a country you live by their rules.

I'm sick of us having to move the goalposts to accommodate people who say they hate our country anyway. The French have it right.

You're onto something, like. In muslim countries christian immigrants wouldn't get the same treatment.

That said, a lot of these people are 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation. They have as much right to call it their country as anyone else. Like it or not, Britain prides itself on being a multicultural nation. And ironically, I think that makes a lot of the inhabitants take a lot less pride in their country. But that's another topic.

At the end of the day, I don't see how it's anyones business what muslim women wear over their faces. Unless it's a special circumstance; i.e. at an airport.

 

[Clint Planet]

You should be able to wear whatever you want, but you should also be allowed to be asked to take things off in places like airports. If these things are covering up your face or something. I'm not talking about pants and underwear. Although that's an interesting train of thought I may explore tonight.

Anyway, whenever something like this comes up, I like to remind myself of the dictionary definition of equality:

the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability.

And I wouldn't try to board a plane with something covering my face. That makes passport control a little tricky. Religious reasons are religious reasons, and I've always believed you should be allowed to do, wear and be whatever you want, so long as it doesn't impact other people negatively. Now, I would expect to be able to walk the street wearing whatever I wanted. Be that a 2 piece swimsuit, a dalmatian costume or really fugly trabs. Really, wearing a burka in the street should not impact anyone negatively. So I think banning them outright is ridiculous, and an infringement upon really basic rights.

The normal protocol here and everywhere else I know of, at least when it comes to passport control in an airport, is that people wearing things like burkas have to remove them to match up with their passport photo, which also must show their face. I don't see then what the point of this ruling is. I'm not sure of all the laws in France right now, but it makes more sense to have laws that make anyone wearing a burka or the like, have to remove it for anything where seeing their face is necessary. If the laws weren't already like that, then they should have been. But just banning them outright...

I think the French have ballsed this one up. I don't see what they can really get out of it, besides controversy. Security reasons aside -- which could be dealt in ways with a little less overkill -- are people really that bothered about people wearing burkas out in the street? I mean, don't get me wrong, I think burkas are a ridiculous element of the religion, and they highlight an archaic view of women. But if Tom Cruise is allowed to believe in space warlocks, then everyday muslim women should be allowed to cover their faces in public.

If you think Goat's reading all that you've got another thing coming.

 

[Clint Planet]

Sacrificing......Islamic women.

I'd just like to say I am completely opposed to this.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

That nails it.

How?

How does implementing a law saying women are "NOT ALLOWED" to wear a burka in public give them more freedom then their religion saying they "HAVE TO" wear a burka in public?


And there was an interview on daybreak this morning conducted with a woman wearing a burka, that seemed to go perfectly ok so saying you can't talk to someone wearing one is a load of bollocks. You can if you actually want to.

If, and thats a big if a law has to be bought in saying the face must not be covered for security reasons at airports, banks whatever then so be it.

There is a law in England which says you must wear a helmet on a motorcycle but exceptions are made for certain religions, no harm there is there?

That link says there are believed to be 2000 women who wear one in France. What percentage of them have committed a crime whilst covering their face i don't but i bet its pretty damn low.

This law will just criminalise a woman going about her own business in public because a small minority of people who follow the same religion as her have extremist views. And the western media has decided to treat Islam and public enemy number one so this is just a part of the mass hysteria which the public buy in to.

If they are acting suspicioulsy they can produce id if needed, same as anyone else.

Why is this ban being bought in now?

 

[Clint Planet]

At the end of the day, I don't see how it's anyones business what muslim women wear over their faces. Unless it's a special circumstance; i.e. at an airport.

Or a fancy dress party.

 

[bluebloodinmyveins]

You're onto something, like. In muslim countries christian immigrants wouldn't get the same treatment.

That said, a lot of these people are 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation. They have as much right to call it their country as anyone else. Like it or not, Britain prides itself on being a multicultural nation. And ironically, I think that makes a lot of the inhabitants take a lot less pride in their country. But that's another topic.

At the end of the day, I don't see how it's anyones business what muslim women wear over their faces. Unless it's a special circumstance; i.e. at an airport.

I'm always right mate.

 

[Clint Planet]

1) I dont take orders from YOU
2) No
3) Who are you?

You are Grandpa Simpson and I claim my five pounds.

 

[Tubey]

How?

How does implementing a law saying women are "NOT ALLOWED" to wear a burka in public give them more freedom then their religion saying they "HAVE TO" wear a burka in public?


And there was an interview on daybreak this morning conducted with a woman wearing a burka, that seemed to go perfectly ok so saying you can't talk to someone wearing one is a load of bollocks. You can if you actually want to.

If, and thats a big if a law has to be bought in saying the face must not be covered for security reasons at airports, banks whatever then so be it.

There is a law in England which says you must wear a helmet on a motorcycle but exceptions are made for certain religions, no harm there is there?

That link says there are believed to be 2000 women who wear one in France. What percentage of them have committed a crime whilst covering their face i don't but i bet its pretty damn low.

This law will just criminalise a woman going about her own business in public because a small minority of people who follow the same religion as her have extremist views. And the western media has decided to treat Islam and public enemy number one so this is just a part of the mass hysteria which the public buy in to.

If they are acting suspicioulsy they can produce id if needed, same as anyone else.

Why is this ban being bought in now?

Read my post for your answer. It's literally nothing to do with criminality.

Here's the exact reason for the ban:

French officials say the move is a measure to protect women's rights and liberal French values.

It's not hard to understand.

 

[neonleon]

I'm with france on the Burkah.

Its not for me an issue about tolerance and liberty.

Banning something may seem draconian but we ban or legislate things, drugs, behaviour all the time in the UK. We are still a relatively free society.

You can find someone who wants the right to wear a Burkah (or the right for her culture, family, religion to dictate her wearing the Burkah). Equally you could find someone who believes in the right to work as a slave. We still banned slavery.

For me this is a gender issue and it smacks of the brutal and systematic subjugation of women.

Keeping women as trophies, arranged marriages, honour killings etc.

Are we to adopt the charming Islam tradition of twelve year olds marrying old men with full conjugal rights?

Why not, its a liberal society we have here isn't it?

We have always embraced culture selectively. The burkah is a symbol of division in mutlicultural britain almost as pernicious as religious schools. When we can communicate freely - which includes looking someone in the face and talking the same language; maybe we can find some common ground and move towards a greater reality of racial harmony. It would be a step for two cultures meeting each other half way.

Instead in the breeding ground of media suspicion support for the BNP grows.