New Everton Stadium Discussion

[AsiaAsia82]

BMD will NEVER be at the centre of the city. I agree about proximity to centre and all its hubs, but BMD will always be at the periphery of the city centre


Making comparisons with all the options is about the new stadium. This thread started before BMD.
No other club have moved without considering the redevelopment option as their benchmark with which to make comprehensive comparison. Has anyone seen any images of a redeveloped GP from say a club commissioned stadium outline-design competion, complete with initial cost estimates etc? Alternatively, how does BMD compare to the world renowned stadium architects HOK's outline design for the Loop site? If you dont know the answers to those questions, how can you talk with such authority or be so dismissive of those who ask?

With respect, the time to redevelop Goodison passed when the PE went up, and was only 1 tier
The atmosphere at the match in those days was awful to say the least so an approach similar to Ashton Gate wouldn’t work for us.
We also need to face the reality, we’re never going to get revenue with other events when you’ve got the other place so close and bigger, with newer facilities
I believe it’s time to stop being whimsical and realise the redevelop option has gone by.
It’s not just me saying that, business men more successful and business minded are doing it.

 

[Bluebonic]

Maybe because it was also off the table over the park, and they even had full planning permission in place for a bigger stadium.

See that dock, see that dot on the horizon? That’s the ship and it has sailed mate.

 

[GwladysPhil]

Has this guy seen the size of the east and west external warehouse concourse things.

I think there's more to this regarding none match days.

 

[Catfish Blues]

"So long as it's cash neutral for us as a club"...... I'm wouldn't argue with that at all. I just haven't seen that mentioned anywhere! Hopefully you're right and USM will wave their magic wand.

That'll depend on two things mate, the interest rate we're being charged and controlling the budget so we don't blow our contingency out of the water. I don't have any major concerns on the former, but, though the project, in general building terms, isn't unique, if something major unplanned for turns up, or we have requirements creep, then we might struggle in the short to medium term.

Long term, to be honest, barring Sky etc losing interest in the game, or a relegation, it's a complete and utter no-brainer.

 

[Brisan123]

That'll depend on two things mate, the interest rate we're being charged and controlling the budget so we don't blow our contingency out of the water. I don't have any major concerns on the former, but, though the project, in general building terms, isn't unique, if something major unplanned for turns up, or we have requirements creep, then we might struggle in the short to medium term.

Long term, to be honest, barring Sky etc losing interest in the game, or a relegation, it's a complete and utter no-brainer.

I think Uzzi and Carlo dumped the bodies in another dock

 

[Chewbacca]

BMD will NEVER be at the centre of the city. I agree about proximity to centre and all its hubs, but BMD will always be at the periphery of the city centre

With the greatest of respect city ‘centres’ move all the time. I’m an ex-pat and know more about Newcastle than Liverpool but I can point you in the direction of at least 3 historic centres in Newcastle. Bridge building, road building and I daresay cruise terminal building change the flow of people and business all the time. In. Most city centres the footfall goes to the newest development.

 

[Barry Rathbone]

Anyone got a ballpark figure for the imagined additional events at BMD?

The already established nearby venue dedicated to entertainment, The Echo arena, turns over less than 30m pa and runs an operating loss (according to the Echo). So even if we burn it down and snaffle their biz how are Elton John and Little Mix concerts plus the Labour party conference going to turn things round?

Please enlighten me.

 

[Catfish Blues]

Anyone got a ballpark figure for the imagined additional events at BMD?

The already established nearby venue dedicated to entertainment, The Echo arena, turns over less than 30m pa and runs an operating loss (according to the Echo). So even if we burn it down and snaffle their biz how are Elton John and Little Mix concerts plus the Labour party conference going to turn things round?

Please enlighten me.

Your info is out of date pal.

Their last accounts ( for year ending March 2019 ) show a profit of either 2.8, 3.8 or 4.8 million on a turnover of 29.8 million

The 4.8 million is operating profit
The 3.8 million is profit after tax
The 2.8 million includes an accounting ( non-cash ) adjustment for a change in the value of their pension scheme

Consider yourself, possibly for the first time in your life, enlightened.

 

[Tom Hughes]

They also had already cleared a lot of streets and had built a fairly big and modern stand in 94 (especially when you compare against our PE stand), the centenary stand was only a couple of years before to help make that decision a bit more palatable. I'm thinking they were quite a bit ahead of us, yet it has still been 7 odd years and they have built one stand. And it looks naff.

Then we look at Goodison, one stand is coming up to 100 years old, another is 82, the main stand is 50 and requires tearing down, as to make that unobstructed would lose thousands of seats under the balcony.

It will just make a carbuncle by adding to buildings that were of another age, they may as well be demolished and rebuilt. Do that then we may as well build on another site where we don't have to evict people from their homes.

If BMD falls through then you might get a more receptive audience but whatever you say now will not cause the board to say 'you know what that Tom Hughes was right after all, let's scrap building at BMD'. If we did I'd imagine we would lose a lot of support from the council who have been helping to make BMD a reality.

I've repeatedly stated that I'm not advocating anything or touting for work. I merely wanted to refute the myth that redevelopment wasn't viable, and in the process have had to make some obvious comparisons, whilst also stating some reservations about the process to date and what we have seen so far.

It appears that you haven't read the pdf, or previous ones covering other approaches that featured at the time of Destination Kirkby...... because this is all covered. I have shown how redevelopment would readily get rid of most or even all obstructed views using a mixture of scale CAD drawings and sketches of schemes that were fully sightline modelled years ago. All for a small landtake. Trevor Skempton, Ward McHugh and others have done similar.

As regards old stands, the bottom 2/3 of the lower tier of LFC's current mainstand was built in 1906 and is far older than anything at GP, but you wouldn't know it looking at it now..... it also houses significantly more corporate than our entire proposed new stadium on its own. Man Utds mainstand was built in 1910.... there are are many equally old lower tiers at some of the world's greatest stadia as I've already mentioned. No one would call the Bernabeu a shithole because its lower bowl was built over 70yrs ago in the 1940s. The lower tier of Anfield's centenary stand is almost 60yrs old. 10 of Germany's 14 biggest stadia are redeveloped stadia and some date from pre-war.... so I'm sorry quoting the age of a few stands is meaningless. It's not about what they are now, it's about what they could be with some imagination and a fraction of the investment required at BMD.

 

[Toffeelover]

I've repeatedly stated that I'm not advocating anything or touting for work. I merely wanted to refute the myth that redevelopment wasn't viable, and in the process have had to make some obvious comparisons, whilst also stating some reservations about the process to date and what we have seen so far.

It appears that you haven't read the pdf, or previous ones covering other approaches that featured at the time of Destination Kirkby...... because this is all covered. I have shown how redevelopment would readily get rid of most or even all obstructed views using a mixture of scale CAD drawings and sketches of schemes that were fully sightline modelled years ago. All for a small landtake. Trevor Skempton, Ward McHugh and others have done similar.

As regards old stands, the bottom 2/3 of the lower tier of LFC's current mainstand was built in 1906 and is far older than anything at GP, but you wouldn't know it looking at it now..... it also houses significantly more corporate than our entire proposed new stadium on its own. Man Utds mainstand was built in 1910.... there are are many equally old lower tiers at some of the world's greatest stadia as I've already mentioned. No one would call the Bernabeu a shithole because its lower bowl was built over 70yrs ago in the 1940s. The lower tier of Anfield's centenary stand is almost 60yrs old. 10 of Germany's 14 biggest stadia are redeveloped stadia and some date from pre-war.... so I'm sorry quoting the age of a few stands is meaningless. It's not about what they are now, it's about what they could be with some imagination and a fraction of the investment required at BMD.

Irrelevant.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Your info is out of date pal.

Their last accounts ( for year ending March 2019 ) show a profit of either 2.8, 3.8 or 4.8 million on a turnover of 29.8 million

The 4.8 million is operating profit
The 3.8 million is profit after tax
The 2.8 million includes an accounting ( non-cash ) adjustment for a change in the value of their pension scheme

Consider yourself, possibly for the first time in your life, enlightened.

Peanuts.

And does that include repayment of the original build cost?

 

[Brisan123]

I've repeatedly stated that I'm not advocating anything or touting for work. I merely wanted to refute the myth that redevelopment wasn't viable, and in the process have had to make some obvious comparisons, whilst also stating some reservations about the process to date and what we have seen so far.

It appears that you haven't read the pdf, or previous ones covering other approaches that featured at the time of Destination Kirkby...... because this is all covered. I have shown how redevelopment would readily get rid of most or even all obstructed views using a mixture of scale CAD drawings and sketches of schemes that were fully sightline modelled years ago. All for a small landtake. Trevor Skempton, Ward McHugh and others have done similar.

As regards old stands, the bottom 2/3 of the lower tier of LFC's current mainstand was built in 1906 and is far older than anything at GP, but you wouldn't know it looking at it now..... it also houses significantly more corporate than our entire proposed new stadium on its own. Man Utds mainstand was built in 1910.... there are are many equally old lower tiers at some of the world's greatest stadia as I've already mentioned. No one would call the Bernabeu a shithole because its lower bowl was built over 70yrs ago in the 1940s. The lower tier of Anfield's centenary stand is almost 60yrs old. 10 of Germany's 14 biggest stadia are redeveloped stadia and some date from pre-war.... so I'm sorry quoting the age of a few stands is meaningless. It's not about what they are now, it's about what they could be with some imagination and a fraction of the investment required at BMD.

The move is obviously in our owners best interest or they would not have sanctioned it
Bigger things afoot than our stadium

 

[The binman chronicles]

That'll depend on two things mate, the interest rate we're being charged and controlling the budget so we don't blow our contingency out of the water. I don't have any major concerns on the former, but, though the project, in general building terms, isn't unique, if something major unplanned for turns up, or we have requirements creep, then we might struggle in the short to medium term.

Long term, to be honest, barring Sky etc losing interest in the game, or a relegation, it's a complete and utter no-brainer.

Even without sky it is still a no brainer. If the repayments are around the 25 million p/a mark, if we got 15 million from naming rights (which at this moment looks like we will smash that), then we just have to make 10 million more from the stadium which given it's likely use for concerts, premium seating, the fact the 10k extra seats will probably not be for STs and the fact it will be a much better place to stay and have a drink or a bite to eat in or around the plaza, then it isn't hard to see that money being made.

Even if we didn't make it all back paying a few million on top wouldn't be the end of the world seeing repairs at Goodison are likely to escalate the older it gets.

Sign that naming rights deal for 10 years and at the end of that period with the money Mosh has said he will front up we will probably owe around 250-300 million, if the going is good and we can sign an equal naming partner then everything is rosy. If not renegotiate the loan to take another 10 years on top of what is left at the time and we'll reduce the required outgoings to help. People saying we will go bust are doom mongers.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Even without sky it is still a no brainer. If the repayments are around the 25 million p/a mark, if we got 15 million from naming rights (which at this moment looks like we will smash that), then we just have to make 10 million more from the stadium which given it's likely use for concerts, premium seating, the fact the 10k extra seats will probably not be for STs and the fact it will be a much better place to stay and have a drink or a bite to eat in or around the plaza, then it isn't hard to see that money being made.

Even if we didn't make it all back paying a few million on top wouldn't be the end of the world seeing repairs at Goodison are likely to escalate the older it gets.

Sign that naming rights deal for 10 years and at the end of that period with the money Mosh has said he will front up we will probably owe around 250-300 million, if the going is good and we can sign an equal naming partner then everything is rosy. If not renegotiate the loan to take another 10 years on top of what is left at the time and we'll reduce the required outgoings to help. People saying we will go bust are doom mongers.

Maths?!

A stadium costing £500m is going to cost us £25m pa to payback?

The interest alone on a £500m construction loan is going to be 7%. And what about the capital?

 

[GwladysPhil]

Tom I'm not going to discuss further the differences in developing a world class stadium from scratch on a water front that will be seen over the world over a century old stadia that will crumble or cost more than anything we will build there.