2018/19 Marco Silva - New Poll Added

[Lanolin]

It's the most indicative issue, not the biggest one. It's clear proof that he's not a pragmatist. It has been an issue since the season started and he's persisted with it no matter what because of a stupid philosophy, instead of being pragmatic and adjusting.

Or, to be blunt, he's not managing. He's sending out roughly the same team to do the exact same thing, week after week, despite it not working.

It's like having Tony Hibbert and demanding he plays like Cafu. It's stupid. All of the issues you state are correct - and every single one of them haven't been managed by the manager.

Again though, you're making a relatively decent point redundant with wild assumptions. It's absolutely not 'clear proof' that he's not a pragmatist, not even close. It might mean that he's not a pragmatist, and if we continue to fail then i'll agree with you. If we suddenly start defending brilliantly with zonal marking though, and qualify for the CL and win a cup next year, keeping a load of clean sheets along the way, then it'll show that he was right all along, and was forgoing short term gain for long term growth.

If only there was an example nearby of a manager who was mocked for using zonal marking and is now ramming everybody's words back down their throat...

 

[zzr45]

So you want to play a system that doesnt suit the modern manager but does suit the players....

Ergo The Allardyce method.

You dont hire a manager and expect him to change his whole system and beliefs to suit some players who arent up to it...thats daft.

In that case you don't hire the manager if he is that stuck in his ways that he cannot adapt what he does to suit the surroundings he's in. Saying it's daft that coaches shouldn't adapt their systems to suit the players suggests that you really aren't au fait with what coaching actually is. You get the best out of a team by being flexible, not autocratic.

But neither is man marking. We man marked under Allardyce, Koeman and Martinez and were just as bad. As a team, we have been awful defensively for years.

Zonal marking does not mean four players stand around one bloke. That picture of Millwall's winner the other day - the only player in his correct zone is Digne. The four at the other side of the box have not executed zonal marking, as they've all followed the ball.

I'm much less concerned by zonal marking than I am by the fact our system is crap which then puts pressure on the defence as we can't attack in phases.It's all hit and hope.

That's more what Silva needs to sort out, imo.

I get that, I think for Silva to come out and say his system was perfect however is the height of arrogance, whatever his (or one assumes, one of his coaches) version of Zonal marking just isn't working. Reading his press conference and watching it back it looks like it just isn't clicking. It looks like training has be utterly focused on the first ball and thats it.

Think that equally goes for the attacking system, if a first time ball doesn't come off, we actually look flustered.

 

[Azza]

I see people are calling him the Portuguese Pardew. lollol


Which is kinda of harsh on Pardew who's record at Palace and Newcastle is better than Silva's here, Watford and Hull. lol

 

[Deleted member 38674]

Fair, but this coach has exceeded expectations in every job he's been in so far with the exception of the Watford gig. Not saying he's the second coming of Pep, but he knows what he's doing.

I actually think it's pretty unfair to judge a guy when he is expected to play a certain way without the players to do so. He wants to attack from width, but his RB can't. He inherited a CB that isn't very good. He has no proper CF. He has 1 DM and likes to play 2.

We're just still several windows away. However, we still has 7th to play for. It's crazy to me that some think the season is over. I don't understand that mentality at all.

It boils down to the conversation that Neville and Carragher were having on MNF about Emery a few months ago, regarding his insistence that Arsenal play out from the back and play it short from goal kicks.

It’s clear Arsenal don’t have suitable centre backs for that style and Carragher’s point (much as I hate to agree with him) was that as a manager, he has to use the players he has as best he can. If that means adapting his style to get results, then so be it.

Neville argued the point that he has to remain faithful to that style, almost arrogantly, irrespective of the mishaps that may occur as it will highlight the inequalities and imbalances in the team, so that you can replace them accordingly.

Both valid points, I just tend to align more with the former.

 

[Zatara]

Exactly - so why does the manager persist with it if the players can't do it?

That's poor management. It's a lack of pragmatism.

Of course its not...hes been hired and he follows his methods.

I don't get why it's too hard for him to set up so our biggest defenders man-to-man mark their most dangerous headers of the ball from set pieces, why we can't put a player on each post, and why we can't use the rest of our players to either pick up their other man or stay in the danger zones to react to where the ball is going.

Perhaps the ball goes somewhere else, what then?

Weve got our 2 CBs totally free to attack the ball...i dont see much wrong there do you?

 

[Zatara]

In that case you don't hire the manager if he is that stuck in his ways that he cannot adapt what he does to suit the surroundings he's in. Saying it's daft that coaches shouldn't adapt their systems to suit the players suggests that you really aren't au fait with what coaching actually is. You get the best out of a team by being flexible, not autocratic.


I get that, I think for Silva to come out and say his system was perfect however is the height of arrogance, whatever his (or one assumes, one of his coaches) version of Zonal marking just isn't working. Reading his press conference and watching it back it looks like it just isn't clicking. It looks like training has be utterly focused on the first ball and thats it.

Think that equally goes for the attacking system, if a first time ball doesn't come off, we actually look flustered.

Pep Guardiola
Jurgen Klopp
Mauricio Pochettino
Antonio Conte
Sarri
Mourinho


Yeah they shouldnt have been hired lol

 

[Zatara]

It boils down to the conversation that Neville and Carragher were having on MNF about Emery a few months ago, regarding his insistence that Arsenal play out from the back and play it short from goal kicks.

It’s clear Arsenal don’t have suitable centre backs for that style and Carragher’s point (much as I hate to agree with him) was that as a manager, he has to use the players he has as best he can. If that means adapting his style to get results, then so be it.

Neville argued the point that he has to remain faithful to that style, almost arrogantly, irrespective of the mishaps that may occur as it will highlight the inequalities and imbalances in the team, so that you can replace them accordingly.

Both valid points, I just tend to align more with the former.

Ive been saying this for weeks...

I agree with Neville 100%. Dont want to follow the manager, dont appoint him.

 

[Lanolin]

It boils down to the conversation that Neville and Carragher were having on MNF about Emery a few months ago, regarding his insistence that Arsenal play out from the back and play it short from goal kicks.

It’s clear Arsenal don’t have suitable centre backs for that style and Carragher’s point (much as I hate to agree with him) was that as a manager, he has to use the players he has as best he can. If that means adapting his style to get results, then so be it.

Neville argued the point that he has to remain faithful to that style, almost arrogantly, irrespective of the mishaps that may occur as it will highlight the inequalities and imbalances in the team, so that you can replace them accordingly.

Both valid points, I just tend to align more with the former.

That's a really good post I think, and probably nails the whole argument. Both sides have merit, it just depends which side of the fence you sit. Personally I'm of the opinion that setting up your style and working out who can and who can't do it is a perfectly acceptable long term view to take in your first season, but I also think there's a limit to how far you can go with that, and we're not that far away from it.

 

[BernieH]

Zonal marking does work if you have aggressive CBs who are positionally sound and will attack the ball, what we are missing is a defender who is willing to get a boot in the face to block a shot, they'd rather turn their back.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Perhaps the ball goes somewhere else, what then?

Weve got our 2 CBs totally free to attack the ball...i dont see much wrong there do you?

Well it ain't working, and that's the only other sensible option.

If the ball goes somewhere else? Well then we have players free to react. We pick up their 3/4 best headers with our best headers, 2 on the posts, 2 floating around the 6-yard box, 2 others in the 18-yard box ready to react to where the ball goes. Covers all eventualities, other then the ball hitting a sudden gust of wind and arrowing into the top corner directly from the corner.

 

[Zatara]

I honestly just think its impatience Zat, I think it's that simple. As a club we are just in no mans land and clubs we have always considered to be our peers throughout our history have pulled away from us and it's causing mass panic. people are scared that we are forever lost to the elite, which is where we have been the majority of our existence.

People just want it back and when a new owner comes on board and basically says he will deliver just that, it's thrown expectation sky high. That's my take on it.

When the DOF and Manager both say several times it will take a while and isnt a short term fix id hope people would think...

That might not mean 6 months...

 

[BernieH]

When the DOF and Manager both say several times it will take a while and isnt a short term fix id hope people would think...

That might not mean 6 months...

A lot are still struggling with the concept of freeing up wages for funds, too much information isn't good for football fans on the internet.

 

[tsubaki]

Zonal marking does work if you have aggressive CBs who are positionally sound and will attack the ball, what we are missing is a defender who is willing to get a boot in the face to block a shot, they'd rather turn their back.

That’s what Mina was trying to do for the first goal though.

 

[BernieH]

That’s what Mina was trying to do for the first goal though.

I'd have to rewatch it, the memory isn't as good as it was lol

 

[Zatara]

Zonal marking does work if you have aggressive CBs who are positionally sound and will attack the ball, what we are missing is a defender who is willing to get a boot in the face to block a shot, they'd rather turn their back.

I think Mina was meant to be doing this...the other 2 are so soft they will be binned off surely.

Jags would have done better against millwall.

Well it ain't working, and that's the only other sensible option.

If the ball goes somewhere else? Well then we have players free to react. We pick up their 3/4 best headers with our best headers, 2 on the posts, 2 floating around the 6-yard box, 2 others in the 18-yard box ready to react to where the ball goes. Covers all eventualities, other then the ball hitting a sudden gust of wind and arrowing into the top corner directly from the corner.

Think about it mate...

Which of our players would be 'free to react' ?

Thats exactly what they arent doing!