Messi "best player of all time"

davek · June 22, 2018

longers said:
Thats the Hollywood narrative thats been sold by the media for sure...

Argentina in the 1986 WC scored 14 goals - Maradona got 5 of them and an assist on 5 others.

...but it's all down to "the Hollywood narrative".

Those that witnessed the tournament know.

davek · June 22, 2018

mellowblue said:
before

Maradona better than Pele???? Unbelievable, heard everything now......the former drug taking cheat not fit to lace Pele's boots.

Pele in world cups had Garrincha, Jairzinho, Carlos Alberto, Rivelino, Gerson, Tostao...all wonderful players.

I cant speak of Pele as I never seen him play apart from a re-run or two of a 1970 WC game. But he thrived in national teams that were studded with class. Maradona didn't have that to draw upon on the biggest stage of all and still achieved.

Zen_Master · June 22, 2018

Walken said:
First one is a bit of a gimme though, wonderful player, probably better defenders around then, the ding dong he had against de boer in the 98 semi final was something else, regularly got to see him go up against cannavaro as well

He had a nervous breakdown before the game in 98.

Walken · June 22, 2018

Zen_Master said:
He had a nervous breakdown before the game in 98.

in the final, pretty sure he was fine for the semi

The binman chronicles · June 22, 2018

Bruce Wayne said:
Super. So we can discount the cheating toe rag and therefore his 1986 'miracles' and declare Messi the best. It's taken longer than I expected but I'm glad we finally got there.

I knew this old chestnut would be trundled out, however even if he hadn't scored that 'goal' it would have been 1-1 and England would have lost on penalties, history remains the same. Ghana deserved to get through against Uruguay and would have if Suarez hadn't decided to handle on the line.

Bruce Wayne · June 22, 2018

The binman chronicles said:
I knew this old chestnut would be trundled out, however even if he hadn't scored that 'goal' it would have been 1-1 and England would have lost on penalties, history remains the same. Ghana deserved to get through against Uruguay and would have if Suarez hadn't decided to handle on the line.

Keeps us from talking about Brexit doesn't it?

bicycleheader · June 22, 2018

heatmeiser said:
You’ve already admitted to not watching him play last night, so you’re not really in a position to say if he has or hasn’t struggled woefully.

He really was anonymous. Barely worked, looked disinterested and lacklustre.

For someone that apparently never drops under a 7/10 - that was a 2/10 performance at best.

Absolutely shocking stuff.

You've not really read properly what I've said in my posts though. Judging by the response

bicycleheader · June 22, 2018

Bruce Wayne said:
So we're taking one match to judge someone's career rather than the several hundred they play? Makes sense.

this is constantly being done when people talk about football over many teams and players

it's why I come back to the same point. I've watched both of them week in and week out for years and I only go on what they actually do with the football at their feet across all those games. They are both amazing players, but the fact that Messi is close to the best, if not the best, playmaker ON TOP of AT THE VERY LEAST matching Cronaldo in the goalscoring stakes is simply too obvious to me. I really don't see how any football fan can look past that.

Walken · June 22, 2018

bicycleheader said:
You've not really read properly what I've said in my posts though. Judging by the response

he'll not be defined by that game, of course he won't, but in that game he was a disgrace. As lazy and childish a performance as I've seen

roydo · June 22, 2018

bicycleheader said:
this is constantly being done when people talk about football over many teams and players

it's why I come back to the same point. I've watched both of them week in and week out for years and I only go on what they actually do with the football at their feet across all those games. They are both amazing players, but the fact that Messi is close to the best, if not the best, playmaker ON TOP of AT THE VERY LEAST matching Cronaldo in the goalscoring stakes is simply too obvious to me. I really don't see how any football fan can look past that.

Arsed about stats. I just prefer watching Ronaldo. Messi cant even head a ball.

bicycleheader · June 22, 2018

Walken said:
he'll not be defined by that game, of course he won't, but in that game he was a disgrace. As lazy and childish a performance as I've seen

haven't seen it so I cant comment. my response was to heatmiser who seemed to think I was suggesting he didn't struggle woefully yesterday. I was talking about in general for Arg. Also seemed to get the impression that I said Messi has never dropped below 7/10 in his career. Which of course I didn't.

Interestingly, in a country which has never fully warmed to Messi, the majority of vitriol by far is heading the coaches way. All is not well in the camp in general.

bicycleheader · June 22, 2018

roydo said:
Arsed about stats. I just prefer watching Ronaldo. Messi cant even head a ball.

That's an odd response to my post Roydo, as I couldn't be overly arsed about stats either. My whole point is about what they do with the ball. How they play the game.

Messi can head a ball, it's just that is not route taken very often by teams he plays in. Crosses from out wide. That's not to take away from Cronaldos majestic aerial ability.

It's fine to prefer one over the other, but objectively speaking if they are both incredible goalscorers but one of the two is also an incredible playmaker then I apart from personal preference I can't see how you can put them on the same level let alone say Cronaldo is better.

roydo · June 22, 2018

bicycleheader said:
That's an odd response to my post Roydo, as I couldn't be overly arsed about stats either. My whole point is about what they do with the ball. How they play the game.

Messi can head a ball, it's just that is not route taken very often by teams he plays in. Crosses from out wide. That's not to take away from Cronaldos majestic aerial ability.

It's fine to prefer one over the other, but objectively speaking if they are both incredible goalscorers but one of the two is also an incredible playmaker then I apart from personal preference I can't see how you can put them on the same level let alone say Cronaldo is better.

Was more an observation than a direct response mate. Maybe its cos I have seen Ronaldo more that makes me prefer him. Or maybe that this WC, he has owned it.

tsubaki · June 22, 2018

Walken said:
doesn't match the other two for longevity, but out the three, theres no doubt fat ronaldo would be the toughest to mark, had everything

He was a fantastic player, but he didn't have anyone to push him like CR7 and Messi have and force him into staying fit, being focused, having clubs built around them etc.

Or to put it another way, Messi (who has the rivalry, the pressure and the support of his club in a way that Ronaldo didn't) has equalled or bettered that season at Barcelona where Ronaldo was literally unplayable six seasons out of the last nine. It is hard to compare them, but then again its hard to compare what Messi and CR7 have done so far with anyone.

bicycleheader · June 22, 2018

roydo said:
Was more an observation than a direct response mate. Maybe its cos I have seen Ronaldo more that makes me prefer him. Or maybe that this WC, he has owned it.

I've had the luck of watching Messi live for the last 4 seasons, but I like to think I can be objective. This argument in general is not normally a haven of objectivity.

If you only watch the Premiership more or less it would be difficult to forget how Cronaldo suddenly switched on the jetpack and absolutely destroyed defences for those couple seasons before he legged it to Madrid.