New Everton Stadium Discussion

[The binman chronicles]

I love the way any doubts are dismissed like this. We have a club with a track record in taking us up the garden path on stadiums and a whole host of problems specifically on BMD adding up around funding and objections to the scheme, but those doubts are all to be set aside because the clever people who have industry knowledge say it's all going to be ok.

Still haven't seen one thing to definitively say it's not going to happen.

Until the Labour cabinet are filmed stepping off Usmanov's yacht with Cartier watches and big fat brown envelopes, Everton birthday cards signed by Moshiri saying there is more money in the post, all the while singing The Farm's All Together Now, everything you are basing your work on is either what happened in the past or guesswork.

You may eventually be right but nothing to this point makes me agree.

The WHS really doesn't effect us, apart from stuff we can and will accomodate for. As for funding it has already flown through the council with barely a hint of objection. Let's get this straight, if we can't raise extra funds we would build a cheaper smaller stadium. The Cardiff City Stadium has 33k seats and was built for around 60 million (including extension), so let's say today it would cost double (not that it would but for argument sake), plus double again to raise the capacity to around the 50k mark (again same thing). So that's 240 million, then add another 100 million to make the outside not so dirt cheap and a few more executive boxes and higher standard of changing rooms etc. So if the council front up 270 million you telling me Moshiri won't put up the extra 70 or so?

At the end of the day even though it would be cheap and basic it would still have more comfortable seats, more leg room and width, no obstructed views, around 11,000 more spectators, more corporate facilities, less maintenance costs, more chance of sponsorship and all in a desired location. It makes it a no brainer to move from Goodison even if it isn't ultimately what we all wanted at the start.

There may yet be a reason why we don't move to BM, but I don't think we have seen it yet.

 

[CrustySack]

Only WW3 will prevent this stadium from being built now. It doesn't matter what the naysayers on here repeatedly spout. It is signed and sealed. Some people are just going to have to accept it.

 

[Lee Smith]

It's not worth thinking it won't happen every time you notice a potential roadblock... we were getting obstacles constantly for years before we finally got everything out of the way. Delay after delay after delay, but with persistance eventually it will happen for sure.

At worst the design might have to be reconsidered unless it has already been designed with the heritage status in mind.

Some of our delays were to do with disputes over listed buildings. There were some Spurs fans calling similar doomsday scenarios as I see on here, but it was just a matter of the club taking the time to work through the problems. It's just a natural consequence of English cities being old.

Nothing that an unfortunate 'accidental' fire couldn't sort out hey Jack....

 

[Jack1882]

Nothing that an unfortunate 'accidental' fire couldn't sort out hey Jack....

More likely it was an insurance job tbh mate. The club had already won it's court battle with Archway and had aquired a compulsory purchase order when the fire happened. It neither sped up when Archway were due to leave or allowed us to build over it faster.

Although I get why that narrative has been pushed, it's just a misinformed one.

 

[davek]

Still haven't seen one thing to definitively say it's not going to happen.

Until the Labour cabinet are filmed stepping off Usmanov's yacht with Cartier watches and big fat brown envelopes, Everton birthday cards signed by Moshiri saying there is more money in the post, all the while singing The Farm's All Together Now, everything you are basing your work on is either what happened in the past or guesswork.

You may eventually be right but nothing to this point makes me agree.

The WHS really doesn't effect us, apart from stuff we can and will accomodate for. As for funding it has already flown through the council with barely a hint of objection. Let's get this straight, if we can't raise extra funds we would build a cheaper smaller stadium. The Cardiff City Stadium has 33k seats and was built for around 60 million (including extension), so let's say today it would cost double (not that it would but for argument sake), plus double again to raise the capacity to around the 50k mark (again same thing). So that's 240 million, then add another 100 million to make the outside not so dirt cheap and a few more executive boxes and higher standard of changing rooms etc. So if the council front up 270 million you telling me Moshiri won't put up the extra 70 or so?

At the end of the day even though it would be cheap and basic it would still have more comfortable seats, more leg room and width, no obstructed views, around 11,000 more spectators, more corporate facilities, less maintenance costs, more chance of sponsorship and all in a desired location. It makes it a no brainer to move from Goodison even if it isn't ultimately what we all wanted at the start.

There may yet be a reason why we don't move to BM, but I don't think we have seen it yet.

I dont say it's not going to happen. I think the Everton CEO used the term 'challenging'. My conclusion is that it's fanciful. Can it go ahead? I suppose so. But it's going to be a long hard slog. My guess is that it'll face a lot of opposition and the cost in the end will be prohibitive. Then ditched.

 

[roydo]

I dont say it's not going to happen. I think the Everton CEO used the term 'challenging'. My conclusion is that it's fanciful. Can it go ahead? I suppose so. But it's going to be a long hard slog. My guess is that it'll face a lot of opposition and the cost in the end will be prohibitive. Then ditched.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Thing is though, the main/only reason Moshiri et al pitched up is the stadium/Liverpool Waters. Admittedly, my own opinion. (Little else makes any sense other than a sensorary conversion to Everton, the Club)

Its not like the WHS is a new development is it? Would have been squared off behind the scenes months ago.

If that is, my opinion is even a little bit right.

 

[Davideeyore]

I deal with reality. Cast iron reality. Having a go at UNESCO for doing what it's there to do is like barking at the moon.

These people who own Everton now are repeating the disastrous stadium policies of the past as far as I see it.

Lets face it, it doesn't look great does it?:

Club have to scrap plan to attract private investors and rely on public loans
Council tied up in knots over retaining or ditching WHS
Council leader pushing the scheme a busted flush locally and dragged in for police questioning

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Don't agree with a word you say apart from acknowledging the last point about Everton have a record of taking us up the garden path.

Focusing on Everton. What's "Lets face it, it doesn't look great does it?" that all about? Utter twaddle. The club is still in the fan consulting stage. They're posting on Facebook sending emails etc about the survey. If there was anything wrong they would be

The club's funding model is what it is.
The WHS is utter twaddle too. It's a "status". I've been awarded a couple of status on this site since i've started commenting, big wow!

I dismiss this WHS tag as a joke keeps the city backward, but the council have it and will like to keep it I'm sure BUT it's no contest when it comes to regeneration of the north docks. Our new stadium will also accelerate Liverpool Waters.

Like I said we're all entitled to our opinion. I see people writing we should not move and stay at Goodison redevelop it or we should set the capacity at BMD at a 45,000. I wonder if they have a brain in their head. But it's their opinion they're entitled to it. I hope the stadium is built a big f*** off state of the art 4th Grace of the Waterfront.

 

[davek]

Maybe. Maybe not.

Thing is though, the main/only reason Moshiri et al pitched up is the stadium/Liverpool Waters. Admittedly, my own opinion. (Little else makes any sense other than a sensorary conversion to Everton, the Club)

Its not like the WHS is a new development is it? Would have been squared off behind the scenes months ago.

If that is, my opinion is even a little bit right.

Well, the Mayor certainly casts a figure as a man doing a lot of backtracking on the issue. Here he is last June speaking to the Guardian:

“Not one person who comes to visit our city comes to see the Unesco certificate on my wall,” he says. “They come to see a vibrant, dynamic city, not one that’s preserved in aspic."

...and today in the Echo: Mayor Joe Anderson said World Heritage status is of "great importance" to the city. "This report shows in great detail the lengths Liverpool has already gone and will continue to go, to balance the needs of a growing city whilst protecting our World Heritage Status"

Something has changed.

 

[davek]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Don't agree with a word you say apart from acknowledging the last point about Everton have a record of taking us up the garden path.

Focusing on Everton. What's "Lets face it, it doesn't look great does it?" that all about? Utter twaddle. The club is still in the fan consulting stage. They're posting on Facebook sending emails etc about the survey. If there was anything wrong they would be

The club's funding model is what it is.
The WHS is utter twaddle too. It's a "status". I've been awarded a couple of status on this site since i've started commenting, big wow!

I dismiss this WHS tag as a joke keeps the city backward, but the council have it and will like to keep it I'm sure BUT it's no contest when it comes to regeneration of the north docks. Our new stadium will also accelerate Liverpool Waters.

Like I said we're all entitled to our opinion. I see people writing we should not move and stay at Goodison redevelop it or we should set the capacity at BMD at a 45,000. I wonder if they have a brain in their head. But it's their opinion they're entitled to it. I hope the stadium is built a big f*** off state of the art 4th Grace of the Waterfront.

The club's funding model has changed to suit the circumstances. I dare say it can change again.

Overall: it's no use discounting the huge obstacles faced by Everton here. They're certainly not being discounted by the CEO of the club.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I dont say it's not going to happen. I think the Everton CEO used the term 'challenging'. My conclusion is that it's fanciful. Can it go ahead? I suppose so. But it's going to be a long hard slog. My guess is that it'll face a lot of opposition and the cost in the end will be prohibitive. Then ditched.

As I said before I'm convinced they would downsize the plans at that point if they were forced to do so. If we can't raise more funds for a stadium on the waterfront what chance have we in a backwater industrial/brown field site so that would be the budget that we would have to work with and it would only buy you less the more you wait. So the choice would be move to a functional stadium at BM or hold out and get less further on down the line.

 

[roydo]

Well, the Mayor certainly casts a figure as a man doing a lot of backtracking on the issue. Here he is last June speaking to the Guardian:

“Not one person who comes to visit our city comes to see the Unesco certificate on my wall,” he says. “They come to see a vibrant, dynamic city, not one that’s preserved in aspic."

...and today in the Echo: Mayor Joe Anderson said World Heritage status is of "great importance" to the city. "This report shows in great detail the lengths Liverpool has already gone and will continue to go, to balance the needs of a growing city whilst protecting our World Heritage Status"

Something has changed.

Says similar to me. Granted, tempered rhetoric in the second quote, but rhetoric is determined by the audience it is directed at.

Quote 1. Business/property folk.

Quote 2. Weirdos who reckon them putting a certificate in the mayors office is a big deal.

 

[TonyT65]

Happy Bunny, Eh Dave. Just what you want!! Let us be honest you have always not liked this but prefer to stay at GP.

Put him on ignore mate
He'll be practically skipping round his front room pulling tongues and saying "I told ya so"
This news will change nothing about Peel/Everton plans
- only what surrounds it

 

[roydo]

This news will change nothing about Peel/Everton plans
- only what surrounds it

Quite.

 

[eddy]

O

Oh wow that's a new level of conspiracy, its an article on the BBC about Peels original plans (No Stadium) the club aren't even mentioned in the article, yet were going to use it to get out of the move? think you might need to take your tinfoil hat off its addling your brain

sigh .... its simple really where is the money coming from ? The Council loan was 280 mil short
Was leasing the land to us in Peels original plans ? Of course it was ...............

 

[roydo]

its simple really where is the money coming from ?

Lets see eh? But its coming. Nailed on.