Cryptocurrencies

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Bitcoin has made a subdued debut onto the world’s largest futures exchange, as a series of politicians and officials voiced concerns about the digital currency.

The Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) became the second exchange to offer bitcoin derivatives trading last night. And right now, bitcoin futures contracts which settle in 2018 have all fallen below their opening value.

The January 2018 contract, which initially spiked over $20,000, has now dropped back to $18,920 - having been originally priced at $19,500.

Contracts that mature in February, March and June are all in the red (although they’ve received little attention compared to the January option).

724.png

Bitcoin futures: all down today Photograph: CME
Futures contracts allow traders to bet against an asset, so today’s moves could suggest that bitcoin’s stunning rally is running out of steam. But, less than 1,000 contracts have been traded today (each one is worth 5 bitcoins).

The spot price of bitcoin has also dipped, currently down 1.6% at $18,640 - having hit a new alltime high near $20,000 last night.

CME’s launch of bitcoin futures was accompanied by a series of warnings. For example:

Analysts at ING also put the boot into bitcoin, saying it would eventually become just a ‘niche product’ again.

ING cited bitcoin’s volatility, scalability issues, and the shadow of regulation among several reasons why it would not replace traditional cash.

So those buyers who are hoping to sell their bitcoins at an even higher price in the future may be disappointed, they say:

We are enthusiastic about blockchain technology, and the current attention for Bitcoin could boost blockchain and digital currencies’ development. But as we have argued above, we doubt whether Bitcoin itself has what it takes to become a serious mainstream payment systems contender. Instead, we think it is more likely for Bitcoin to return to its roots as a niche payment system. A niche asset adopted worldwide could still have a substantial user base and hence value. It is therefore impossible to say whether the current Bitcoin market price is “too high” for a niche asset.

Then again, we join the crowd of analysts observing typical bubble characteristics: the idea of an asset that is new, revolutionary, almost magic – hard to understand, but let’s invest anyway because it will become huge. This idea is a form of “this time it’s different”-thinking. “Yes we know about all those previous bubbles that popped, but Bitcoin is really, really different.” We are not so sure.


Uh oh.
 

The end game (as envisioned by r/Bitcoin) :p

I am a time-traveler from the future, here to beg you to stop what you are doing

Crypto currencies could bring down banks and governments..

The 20 or so programmers world wide that are creating these currencies will be able to buy out countries in the end. Bill gates will have nothing on these guys.

But I still think it's all the Chinese. Another way to get money from the west until they've bought the whole world.
 

Crypto currencies could bring down banks and governments..

The 20 or so programmers world wide that are creating these currencies will be able to buy out countries in the end. Bill gates will have nothing on these guys.

But I still think it's all the Chinese. Another way to get money from the west until they've bought the whole world.

Wut
 
Why You Can’t Cash Out Pt. 1: Why Bitcoin’s “price” is largely fictional
https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchai...pt-1-why-bitcoins-price-is-largely-fictional/
Public discussion and media coverage of Bitcoin makes certain assumptions:

  • Bitcoin has a price, that you could expect to buy or sell it around.
  • Bitcoin is like buying a share in a company, or a commodity like gold — the market works the same way.
  • Bitcoin is liquid — it’s reasonably easy to convert your money to Bitcoin, and your Bitcoin to money in your bank account.

None of these are true...
* * *
There are various shenanigans that are banned on real securities exchanges for good reason, but are standard in crypto:
  • wash trades — where you trade with yourself, to pump the price up or down, or just create the illusion of trading volume. You could literally do this in the Bitfinex trading engine quite recently.
  • spoofing — where you place a large order to create the illusion of market optimism or pessimism, and cancel as soon as the price gets anywhere near it. This is endemic on Bitfinex and Coinbase/GDAX.
  • painting the tape — like wash trading, but with two or more participants. Mark Karpelès admitted in court that he had been using the “Willybot” to pump up the Bitcoin price on the Mt. Gox exchange during the 2013 Bitcoin bubble.
  • front-running — where an exchange operator takes advantage of a buy or sell order before other customers can.
  • insiders with access to the database trading on their own exchange — Bitfinex officers trade on the exchange themselves. They state that they avoid conflicts of interest, but there is no oversight or transparency on this.
The US Commodities and Futures Trading Commission has listed many of these (PDF) as specific problems that are notably worse in the Bitcoin marketplace than in other markets.

Because inside the exchanges is the Wild West, the interface between exchanges and the world of regular finance is stringently regulated. This causes tremendous problems for getting actual money out of exchanges, as we’ll see in part 2. And does questionable things to send the price up …


This whole thing seems like equal parts greed, laziness, and:
Crypto currencies could bring down banks and governments..

The 20 or so programmers world wide that are creating these currencies will be able to buy out countries in the end. Bill gates will have nothing on these guys.

But I still think it's all the Chinese. Another way to get money from the west until they've bought the whole world.
^college stoner-grade libertarian conspiracy reverie.

Probably ; )
 

Why You Can’t Cash Out Pt. 1: Why Bitcoin’s “price” is largely fictional
https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchai...pt-1-why-bitcoins-price-is-largely-fictional/
Public discussion and media coverage of Bitcoin makes certain assumptions:

  • Bitcoin has a price, that you could expect to buy or sell it around.
  • Bitcoin is like buying a share in a company, or a commodity like gold — the market works the same way.
  • Bitcoin is liquid — it’s reasonably easy to convert your money to Bitcoin, and your Bitcoin to money in your bank account.

None of these are true...
* * *
There are various shenanigans that are banned on real securities exchanges for good reason, but are standard in crypto:



    • painting the tape — like wash trading, but with two or more participants. Mark Karpelès admitted in court that he had been using the “Willybot” to pump up the Bitcoin price on the Mt. Gox exchange during the 2013 Bitcoin bubble.
    • front-running — where an exchange operator takes advantage of a buy or sell order before other customers can.
    • insiders with access to the database trading on their own exchange — Bitfinex officers trade on the exchange themselves. They state that they avoid conflicts of interest, but there is no oversight or transparency on this.
The US Commodities and Futures Trading Commission has listed many of these (PDF) as specific problems that are notably worse in the Bitcoin marketplace than in other markets.

Because inside the exchanges is the Wild West, the interface between exchanges and the world of regular finance is stringently regulated. This causes tremendous problems for getting actual money out of exchanges, as we’ll see in part 2. And does questionable things to send the price up …


This whole thing seems like equal parts greed, laziness, and:

^college stoner-grade libertarian conspiracy reverie.

Probably ; )
Rather all of the above - if in fact these things do happen - than have artificial market suppression as in gold and silver
 
Last edited:
Bitcoin has made a subdued debut onto the world’s largest futures exchange, as a series of politicians and officials voiced concerns about the digital currency.

The Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) became the second exchange to offer bitcoin derivatives trading last night. And right now, bitcoin futures contracts which settle in 2018 have all fallen below their opening value.

The January 2018 contract, which initially spiked over $20,000, has now dropped back to $18,920 - having been originally priced at $19,500.

Contracts that mature in February, March and June are all in the red (although they’ve received little attention compared to the January option).

724.png

Bitcoin futures: all down today Photograph: CME
Futures contracts allow traders to bet against an asset, so today’s moves could suggest that bitcoin’s stunning rally is running out of steam. But, less than 1,000 contracts have been traded today (each one is worth 5 bitcoins).

The spot price of bitcoin has also dipped, currently down 1.6% at $18,640 - having hit a new alltime high near $20,000 last night.

CME’s launch of bitcoin futures was accompanied by a series of warnings. For example:

Analysts at ING also put the boot into bitcoin, saying it would eventually become just a ‘niche product’ again.

ING cited bitcoin’s volatility, scalability issues, and the shadow of regulation among several reasons why it would not replace traditional cash.

So those buyers who are hoping to sell their bitcoins at an even higher price in the future may be disappointed, they say:

We are enthusiastic about blockchain technology, and the current attention for Bitcoin could boost blockchain and digital currencies’ development. But as we have argued above, we doubt whether Bitcoin itself has what it takes to become a serious mainstream payment systems contender. Instead, we think it is more likely for Bitcoin to return to its roots as a niche payment system. A niche asset adopted worldwide could still have a substantial user base and hence value. It is therefore impossible to say whether the current Bitcoin market price is “too high” for a niche asset.

Then again, we join the crowd of analysts observing typical bubble characteristics: the idea of an asset that is new, revolutionary, almost magic – hard to understand, but let’s invest anyway because it will become huge. This idea is a form of “this time it’s different”-thinking. “Yes we know about all those previous bubbles that popped, but Bitcoin is really, really different.” We are not so sure.


Uh oh.

yes, this is what @orly has been waiting for
 

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