Dyche or Allardyce?

Dyche or Allardyce

  • Dyche

  • Allardyce

  • Moyes on toast


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Allardyce.

It's not a life sentence. If people are angry and frustrated, aim it at the board.

He can stabilise us, and give the club room to re-assess, and take stock.

Our PL status is paramount, anyone and anything else pales in comparison.

Perhaps we'll stay up anyway, but at this point I'd go safety first.

It may be a positive turning point of sorts yet, but only if Moshiri finally realises what he has bought into here.

He has to deal with the reality of the situation and what that says about us, and take ownership of the club at all levels.

Would you go him over Tuchel if you have the chance mate?

By accounts Allardyce wants a 3 year deal. That means (another) big payment or we are stuck with him.

He wants to move in 15 of his own staff. That likely means job losses all round for Evertonians who have done nothing but serve our club with distinction.

The likelihood is, the majority of our promising young players are sidelined. I think Kenny, Baningime, Lookman, Vlasic, possibly Holgate and Davies will be sidelined for older yard dogs, while lads like Dowell will never get a look in.
We will likely take a huge loss on talented players such as Klaasen, Barkley, Sandro etc to help fund his re-adjustment to get the squad looking the way he wants it too.

Yes he keeps teams up, on the most part through good fortune. The majority though once he leaves implode, because his methods leave very little successional planning, very little opportunity for younger players and an over emphasis on ageing players. Bolton he left- relegation. Newcastle he left-relegation. Sunderland-Relegation. Crystal Palace-likely relegation.

Perhaps most importantly, if he comes in now, we are done. The small window of opportunity is gone. Our standing as a club looking to close and break the gap of the top 6 teams done. We will have finally accepted our lot as one of the clubs outside of the top 6, happy to play plodding direct football. Even if we bin him off after 18 months (at a huge cost) our reputation will take significant time to rebuild.

Is this worth it to give us a greater likelihood of survival? Maybe. I can see why some would want it (not for me though).

As you rightly say though, fingers need to be pointed at the board. Was all of the above worth it. The plan thrown out of the window. Decent Evertonians losing their jobs to satisfy the ego of a fella after a last big pay check. Young scousers thrown out of the team for journeymen pro's. That will have been allowed to happen, because Farhad decided it wasn't as important as moving Kenwright, Woods & Elstone out of the club.
 
Allardyce.

It's not a life sentence. If people are angry and frustrated, aim it at the board.

He can stabilise us, and give the club room to re-assess, and take stock.

Our PL status is paramount, anyone and anything else pales in comparison.

Perhaps we'll stay up anyway, but at this point I'd go safety first.

It may be a positive turning point of sorts yet, but only if Moshiri finally realises what he has bought into here.

He has to deal with the reality of the situation and what that says about us, and take ownership of the club at all levels.

Oh, but it is.

Stolen from: https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/poll-sam-allardyce-yes-or-no.100015/page-33#post-5883320

Bolton - his massive overspending on backroom staff started a big downturn in their finances.
Newcastle - went down, needed a total rebuild. Couldn't get rid of crap like Nolan for ages as he'd given them big deals.
Blackburn - Couple with Venkys he's helped take that club into ruin
West Ham - saddled with utter rubbish like Carroll that they can't shift. Owners and fans hated him because they knew he was up to no good.
Sunderland - short-termism contributed to a bloated, crap squad that, hey, now is marooned near the bottom of the Championship
Palace - only team worse than us, currently.
 
But that's a daft comparison when you look at the players he would of had at his disposal during that period vs ours
Palace, Stoke, WBA, West Ham all have 100+ goals in the same period as Burnley, even Bournemouth exceed 100+ in their last 86 games.

How many time do you see Burnley 1-0 or Burnley 1-1

It's effective but is that what you want?

It's good enough for Burnley, not us.
 
Torn. It's like choosing between salad and pasta when you want a big juicy beefburger. Both have their pros and cons. Can't decide.
 

Would you go him over Tuchel if you have the chance mate?

By accounts Allardyce wants a 3 year deal. That means (another) big payment or we are stuck with him.

He wants to move in 15 of his own staff. That likely means job losses all round for Evertonians who have done nothing but serve our club with distinction.

The likelihood is, the majority of our promising young players are sidelined. I think Kenny, Baningime, Lookman, Vlasic, possibly Holgate and Davies will be sidelined for older yard dogs, while lads like Dowell will never get a look in.
We will likely take a huge loss on talented players such as Klaasen, Barkley, Sandro etc to help fund his re-adjustment to get the squad looking the way he wants it too.

Yes he keeps teams up, on the most part through good fortune. The majority though once he leaves implode, because his methods leave very little successional planning, very little opportunity for younger players and an over emphasis on ageing players. Bolton he left- relegation. Newcastle he left-relegation. Sunderland-Relegation. Crystal Palace-likely relegation.

Perhaps most importantly, if he comes in now, we are done. The small window of opportunity is gone. Our standing as a club looking to close and break the gap of the top 6 teams done. We will have finally accepted our lot as one of the clubs outside of the top 6, happy to play plodding direct football. Even if we bin him off after 18 months (at a huge cost) our reputation will take significant time to rebuild.

Is this worth it to give us a greater likelihood of survival? Maybe. I can see why some would want it (not for me though).

As you rightly say though, fingers need to be pointed at the board. Was all of the above worth it. The plan thrown out of the window. Decent Evertonians losing their jobs to satisfy the ego of a fella after a last big pay check. Young scousers thrown out of the team for journeymen pro's. That will have been allowed to happen, because Farhad decided it wasn't as important as moving Kenwright, Woods & Elstone out of the club.
the likes of Duncan and Unsworth frankly can go I don't see the need to keep them on ad infinitum - Duncan in particular has been integral to 2 failed regimes now. In what way exactly has he served the club with distinction? If the new man wants his own team in and Unsworth has to go then so be it, no problem. This is a ruthless business we cannot sleepwalk our way into the Championship in order to retain an u23 coach.

In fact if Allardyce has asked for 15 of his own people to be brought in then I would say that's actually a very proactive and positive move.
 
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Would you go him over Tuchel if you have the chance mate?

By accounts Allardyce wants a 3 year deal. That means (another) big payment or we are stuck with him.

He wants to move in 15 of his own staff. That likely means job losses all round for Evertonians who have done nothing but serve our club with distinction.

The likelihood is, the majority of our promising young players are sidelined. I think Kenny, Baningime, Lookman, Vlasic, possibly Holgate and Davies will be sidelined for older yard dogs, while lads like Dowell will never get a look in.
We will likely take a huge loss on talented players such as Klaasen, Barkley, Sandro etc to help fund his re-adjustment to get the squad looking the way he wants it too.

Yes he keeps teams up, on the most part through good fortune. The majority though once he leaves implode, because his methods leave very little successional planning, very little opportunity for younger players and an over emphasis on ageing players. Bolton he left- relegation. Newcastle he left-relegation. Sunderland-Relegation. Crystal Palace-likely relegation.

Perhaps most importantly, if he comes in now, we are done. The small window of opportunity is gone. Our standing as a club looking to close and break the gap of the top 6 teams done. We will have finally accepted our lot as one of the clubs outside of the top 6, happy to play plodding direct football. Even if we bin him off after 18 months (at a huge cost) our reputation will take significant time to rebuild.

Is this worth it to give us a greater likelihood of survival? Maybe. I can see why some would want it (not for me though).

As you rightly say though, fingers need to be pointed at the board. Was all of the above worth it. The plan thrown out of the window. Decent Evertonians losing their jobs to satisfy the ego of a fella after a last big pay check. Young scousers thrown out of the team for journeymen pro's. That will have been allowed to happen, because Farhad decided it wasn't as important as moving Kenwright, Woods & Elstone out of the club.

I'm honestly not sure. Perhaps my judgement is clouded, but I'm genuinely terrified by what I'm seeing on the pitch. Absolutely terrified. If we lost 4 or 5 on the bounce looking awful in an otherwise ok season, you'd say things will be alright but I wouldn't lay any money on us staying up at the moment. We have been absolute total turd all season, and there is enough of it gone to come to at least some conclusions.

I fully agree that Allardyce hauls us back to an era we thought we had left behind, but by God I'm worried. I have no huge desire to see him appointed, but he talked sense with Andy Gray and for me, he is the best placed to get us of of this. I'm barely thinking past the next game, let alone into next season.

We don't know if Tuchel is interested in the job, or if we are in him. If I had to wager on it, my answers would be no and yes. Agree completely with you and your intimation that we have no leadership at board level and from Moshiri. That is the fundamental problem, and being in a position where Allardyce and Dyche seem to be the leading candidates is symptomatic of the disease, not the disease itself.

If Walsh, Elstone, Kenwright, and the whole cabal can not put a structure in place for an orderly transition post-Allardyce (if it comes to it), then this is again the club/boards issue. Allardyce gets a 2 or 3 year contract, and in reality, thats the remit over which he would be paid to have influence and be responsible for results/performances.
 

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In fact if Allardyce has asked for 15 of his own people to be brought in then I would say that's actually a very proactive and positive move.
15 ? Koff Sam.
5 and a boss sub.
 
It's going to happen and you know it.

Overcome the anger, let the sadness sink in, accept that life is meaningless, and vote.

Of the two of them, Dyche for me.

Mind you, I think Allardyce is underrated. When he was given time with a squad, he got them playing better ( though limited ) footie than many give him credit for. He got Bolton into Europe ffs, and had Jay Jay Okacha in his team, so he's not totally anti-football.

Dyche is orobably a better medium term plan for us. Plus, I have money on him being next Everton manager.
 

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