Ronald Koeman discussion

[Timak]

I just don't understand the doom and gloom (not saying you're being doomy or gloomy my friend) that seems to be around the fanbase atm.

Yeh, we cocked up in not getting a CF. That was a priority and I can't understand why the board - having backed the manager all summer - picked now not to do so in regards to such a key area of the team. But we're still heading in the right direction.

As a doomer and gloomer I'd say the problem I have is we have massively weakened the attack.
We struggled to create chances last season but were saved by having a hugely effective striker (24 goals in 94 shots is the best scoring accuracy in the league) and one of the most creative midfielders in Barkley (top 10 for chances created in open play, top 10 for distance carrying the ball up field).
For various reasons we lost both those players.

It may be that Sigurdsson, Rooney, Sandro and Klaassen combine to fill that gap in the squad but they are all very different style players. Klaassen and Sigurdsson are players who ghost into the box to score and assist. Sandro and Rooney don't provide the physical threat and strength of Lukaku.

In short I don't see who will be scoring or setting up goals.

 

[BlueToff]

I don't disagree with you that the club is moving in the right direction, Toff.

But the team isn't.

The club is making giant strides off the field.

But on the field we are like the curate's egg.

And this manager does not appear to have either the skill sets nor the temperament to replicate on the field what is happening off it IMO.

How can you say that though Khal?

We finished 11th two years running. Last season we finished 7th and returned to Europe. Anyone saying we didn't improve are ignoring basic facts.

We've had 7 games so far and we've won the majority - without ever really clicking.

The games we've drawn have been away in Croatia and against a very very good City side.

While only the first-half against Split has been excellent so far, the only 'bad' performance we've put in was against defending champions Chelsea, half down to the injuries/fixture congestion (which we must learn to deal with) and half down to some poor tactics/performances.

So I'm baffled how you can't see the improvement we've made in the last 12 months.

The litmus test is finding a different way of playing without Lukaku. To do this, Koeman wanted another striker and we can all agree he's been let down in that regard. However, we still have a good squad and he must now show he has the skill - as he did at Saints - to work with that.

 

[COYBL25]

As a doomer and gloomer I'd say the problem I have is we have massively weakened the attack.
We struggled to create chances last season but were saved by having a hugely effective striker (24 goals in 94 shots is the best scoring accuracy in the league) and one of the most creative midfielders in Barkley (top 10 for chances created in open play, top 10 for distance carrying the ball up field).
For various reasons we lost both those players.

It may be that Sigurdsson, Rooney, Sandro and Klaassen combine to fill that gap in the squad but they are all very different style players. Klaassen and Sigurdsson are players who ghost into the box to score and assist. Sandro and Rooney don't provide the physical threat and strength of Lukaku.

In short I don't see who will be scoring or setting up goals.

Even shorter - we're very unbalanced as a team.

 

[BlueToff]

As a doomer and gloomer I'd say the problem I have is we have massively weakened the attack.
We struggled to create chances last season but were saved by having a hugely effective striker (24 goals in 94 shots is the best scoring accuracy in the league) and one of the most creative midfielders in Barkley (top 10 for chances created in open play, top 10 for distance carrying the ball up field).
For various reasons we lost both those players.

It may be that Sigurdsson, Rooney, Sandro and Klaassen combine to fill that gap in the squad but they are all very different style players. Klaassen and Sigurdsson are players who ghost into the box to score and assist. Sandro and Rooney don't provide the physical threat and strength of Lukaku.

In short I don't see who will be scoring or setting up goals.

We'll find a different way of playing.

You need to get out of the mindset that we'll be sticking with the style we had - which was basically to play to Rom's strengths.

How quickly we can adjust/that come to fruition will be what matters.

 

[Death]

What's going on in this thread. We are doing better in the league than most predicted so far. Same people that predicted we would get 3 points out of the first six games are on here gargling bleach. One loss out of pre-season, Europa, and the league and against the champions.

The performances will come. Let's just get out of this nightmare start alive first.

 

[BlueToff]

Even shorter - we're very unbalanced as a team.

No we aren't though.

We're much more balanced if anything.

The issue is the failure to get a striker. Questions should be asked about that. Koeman demanded it. Why back the manager all summer and then not get him a key piece at the end?

Honestly lads, just assess. We're three league games into the season, and two of those games have been away at sides who finished 3rd and 1st respectively, and have spent more on four players than we have on 9.

We're in the group stages of Europe after four testing legs (mainly due to how early it started).

The way some are acting, it's like we're in December and propping up the table.

It's a long season. Chill out.

 

[Timak]

So I'm baffled how you can't see the improvement we've made in the last 12 months.

The litmus test is finding a different way of playing without Lukaku. To do this, Koeman wanted another striker and we can all agree he's been let down in that regard. However, we still have a good squad and he must now show he has the skill - as he did at Saints - to work with that.

We are far better organised and fitter than under Martinez.

However Koeman has also had £220m to spend on the squad and has only had to sell Stones and Lukaku.

He has signed a £30m goalkeeper, spent £40m on centre backs, £60m on central midfielders, £95m on attacking midfielders and £5m on strikers in that time.

 

[BlueToff]

We are far better organised and fitter than under Martinez.

However Koeman has also had £220m to spend on the squad and has only had to sell Stones and Lukaku.

He has signed a £30m goalkeeper, spent £40m on centre backs, £60m on central midfielders, £95m on attacking midfielders and £5m on strikers in that time.

Who did Martinez have to sell mate?

I was a fan of Bobby up until it became clear he'd lost the team, but we only sold one player for a big fee during his time here. Fellaini.

And that was a player who didn't suit his style of play anyway.

And we are better off for all of those players we have signed.

Our defence improved last year and the introduction of Williams definitely helped that, even as a stop-gap measure. We desperately needed a GK and he's already won us points this season.

We desperately needed more creativity and Klaassen and Gylfi provide that. It's just a shame about Ross.

He's introduced as many young players as key 1st team players during his one season here as RM did in three...

 

[COYBL25]

No we aren't though.

We're much more balanced if anything.

The issue is the failure to get a striker. Questions should be asked about that. Koeman demanded it. Why back the manager all summer and then not get him a key piece at the end?

Honestly lads, just assess. We're three league games into the season, and two of those games have been away at sides who finished 3rd and 1st respectively, and have spent more on four players than we have on 9.

We're in the group stages of Europe after four testing legs (mainly due to how early it started).

The way some are acting, it's like we're in December and propping up the table.

It's a long season. Chill out.

A defence with one side that's not covered adequately, a midfield that lacks pace ( not knocking any of them by the way ).

No proper goal scorer.

Sorry, but that's an unbalanced team in my eyes.

 

[BlueToff]

A defence with one side that's not covered adequately, a midfield that lacks pace ( not knocking any of them by the way ).

No proper goal scorer.

Sorry, but that's an unbalanced team in my eyes.

And as I've said the failure to get a striker reflects very badly on the people who were responsible for that.

But our side isn't unbalanced if we find a different way of playing, which is what Koeman wants to do.

If we play in the style we did last year, then yes, it will look disjointed and unbalanced.

But I think in the majority of games we'll see a line up similar to the one that started at home vs Split and we really clicked into gear in that game, for the first half at least.

Unfortunately our start to the season hasn't really allowed much breathing room. But we've got 4 points from three tough games.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

We are far better organised and fitter than under Martinez.

However Koeman has also had £220m to spend on the squad and has only had to sell Stones and Lukaku.

He has signed a £30m goalkeeper, spent £40m on centre backs, £60m on central midfielders, £95m on attacking midfielders and £5m on strikers in that time.

Striker is a tough position to fill with quality, though. Who lashes them in on the reg and is a realistic target for us? I mean they must be out there, and it's a failure not to have sorted it out, but I don't see it as incompetence or anything like that. You've got 6 months to replace Lukaku - get on it. That's a tough ask that might have boiled down to 1 or 2 candidates that just didn't work out, and we don't have the massive funds or CL standing that would force the issue.

How long did it take us to get a quality goalkeeper from when it was obvious we needed one? I think we have to accept that these key positions are hard to fill and sometimes need a few goes to get right.

 

[Khalekan]

How can you say that though Khal?

We finished 11th two years running. Last season we finished 7th and returned to Europe. Anyone saying we didn't improve are ignoring basic facts.

We've had 7 games so far and we've won the majority - without ever really clicking.

The games we've drawn have been away in Croatia and against a very very good City side.

While only the first-half against Split has been excellent so far, the only 'bad' performance we've put in was against defending champions Chelsea, half down to the injuries/fixture congestion (which we must learn to deal with) and half down to some poor tactics/performances.

So I'm baffled how you can't see the improvement we've made in the last 12 months.

The litmus test is finding a different way of playing without Lukaku. To do this, Koeman wanted another striker and we can all agree he's been let down in that regard. However, we still have a good squad and he must now show he has the skill - as he did at Saints - to work with that.

I can say it very easily, Toff.

By common consent we had "underachieved" with those two 11th place finishes......so making the leap to seventh was not like we bridged some Grand Canyoneasque chasm....welcome as it was.

But no great excuse for hanging out the bunting.

And whilst it is great we are in Europe......Lyon here I come .....the simple fact is that but for in unjustly disallowed goal for Saints in the EFL cup final that simple pleasure might have been denied us.

We are only in Europe because two of the qualifying spots went to teams which went into Europe by another route.

And whilst there is no denying that City are a very good side, they only had ten men for most the game and they gave us the runaround.

And Burnley beat Chelsea where we just went there to keep the score down. Go figure

But ultimately Toff, I judge things by what I see with my own eyes.

And this turgid stuff we have seen over six and a half competitive games, the first half versus Split being the exception, was evident for much of last season as well.....particularly away from home.

At the lower level clubs as well as them as finished above us.

I am not looking forward to Saturday's game with any great optimism I have to say, Toff.

And it was an awful lot further into Bobby's reign when such ominous feelings coloured my judgement

 

[Nymzee]

I can say it very easily, Toff.

By common consent we had "underachieved" with those two 11th place finishes......so making the leap to seventh was not like we bridged some Grand Canyoneasque chasm....welcome as it was.

But no great excuse for hanging out the bunting.

And whilst it is great we are in Europe......Lyon here I come .....the simple fact is that but for in unjustly disallowed goal for Saints in the EFL cup final that simple pleasure might have been denied us.

We are only in Europe because two of the qualifying spots went to teams which went into Europe by another route.

And whilst there is no denying that City are a very good side, they only had ten men for most the game and they gave us the runaround.

And Burnley beat Chelsea where we just went there to keep the score down. Go figure

But ultimately Toff, I judge things by what I see with my own eyes.

And this turgid stuff we have seen over six and a half competitive games, the first half versus Split being the exception, was evident for much of last season as well.....particularly away from home.

At the lower level clubs as well as them as finished above us.

I am not looking forward to Saturday's game with any great optimism I have to say, Toff.

And it was an awful lot further into Bobby's reign when such ominous feelings coloured my judgement

Love your positivity my man.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

Hmm. This is the Koeman thread but the discussion above is rightly broader.

I am glass half full at present. When the fixtures came out I thought we would have to work hard to come through the first set of games in contention. We beat Stoke at home, drew with City and and lost to Chelsea away. That is probably what we expected. Next games are home to Spurs, away at Utd then home to Sunderland and Bournemouth. This will be the end of September. We could be sat around 12 points after 7 games (10 to 15 spread !). Not the end of the world given who those games were against and form that would see us in Europe at the end of the season. Put poor teams to the sword pick up points against the better teams.


In terms of the team we have strengthened GK, Defence, Midfield and the Bench in my view. On the face of it we are weaker up top but that strengthened Midfield (inc no.10) will produce goals. Gylfi and Davie both have goals in them as do Rooney and Sandro. Could they get 35 to 40 goals between them ? Yes, I think they can


My biggest concern is not our strengthening it is the activity of others teams. We are looking for a couple of them to struggle compared to last year in order for us to improve on 7th place. Very doable but too early to tell.

 

[Steve Wigan]

There are only possibly two clubs in the world that could have replaced Lukaku like for like by clicking their fingers,and even Barca and Chelsea have not achieved all their targets in the last window. Lukaku WANTED TO LEAVE. He told us so...and no matter how much notice he gave us,and it was considerable, he was never going to be replaced smoothly. RK knew he would have to change our style,and spread the scoring around,because whatever striker he got, the new man would never be as effective as a scorer as Lukaku...the new man needed to have other qualities. The incoming striker didn't happen. We are one of many clubs who missed targets in the summer, but we still had one of the best windows on record.
And so we have the enormous potential of DCL,and we have the coaching,and tactical skill of RK to see us through until at least January. So be it...its not the end of the world,we will 'find a way' and by the end of the season we will be a better,stronger team. With Rooney,Siggy,Klausen,and others, there are potential goals from many areas of the team.